Seyha wrote:Zarkor, it's obvious from Blue's comments that the staff are brainstorming this issue. I enjoy reading your ideas for ways to correct RvR imbalance, but I don't think it's fair to the accuse a volunteer team of doing nothing.

Well the suggestions we gave were declined by the staff for some reason (thanks Blue for suggesting them on the staff fora). There was no feedback why they were declined and now we're sitting here repeating the same issues over and over and over again.

The thing is we have no idea what they are doing, however meanwhile the problems remain. This concerns the major issues mainly.

- RA system
- OF implementation
- BG implementation

Zarkor wrote:I know the faults of OF. I know why people play BGs.

BGs have a PuG friendly environment, have the option to go out with a char that has had NO form of templating whatsoever, instant action, easy to find grps.

OF has a PuG hostile environment, impossible to do anything without a good template, has a bigger time sink on top of that, making losing (due to skill/teamplay/RR/equipment/setup) even worse. This actually makes all those factors MUCH more important than in BGs since you will not only lose a battle if your face a stronger opponent, you will lose a LOT of time resulting in less fun.



Question is: how do you 'fix' this? How do you make end RvR more attracting than BG RvR for all those casual RvR players?

Either you make BG RvR less attractive or you make end RvR more attractive. I see both as an option, but of course the ideal would be to make end RvR more attractive to create a decent solution. A combination of both however might work even better.


PS: This problem is not created by OF, it's been here all along, even with NF. However, OF has definately emphasized it by increasing the price of a lost fight, which hurts the casual RvR player the most, making him search RvR in other places. Since the zones that aren't crowded with setgrps / high RR grps are empty, they move to BGs. For the same reason (no real option to do casual end RvR outside the setgroups' territory), this problem also existed in NF/Agra. Of course, in Agramon, getting rolled by such a group wasn't as demotivating as it is in OF.

That is Pretty much what i wanted to articulate but i used a lot more "walls of text" haha. That's a good summation of the issues btw.

Again and again and again, PROMOTE Realm vs Realm
Can you give numerous exemples of a 15min or 30min Keep attack/defend??
This is what is so fun in DAoC!
Battlegroup of 3 or 4 groups minimum, 50 people or more both side for pure fun.
An army facing another army: one inside the keep, on walls, the other externally.
The first one trembling to loose the keep for any bonus/DF reason but in the best position to defend.
The other one trembling to crash against these defended walls but motivated by any Bonus/DF reason.

And don't say to me it is impossible on a 700 people server, I was playing on Carnac!!!

="nixianexample of fixing:

odins - bonus rp/bp for killing in a grp with 4 or less people
hadrians - bonus to rp/bp for being over RR6
emain - bonus rp/bp for being under RR6

all zones - bonus rp/bp for being close to a keep


this would tell every single play style something about where they should look for some evenly minded persons

odins = solo/smallman
hadrians = high RR set grps 8v8 kinda style
emain - low rr casual playstyle

^^ best suggestion on the whole thread. The only problem is that the 8 man guild groups will still opt for emain to roll the newby low rr casuals (coz thats the easiest way to /flex). my suggestion would be to swap hadrians and emain bonuses, forcing the gank groups to RvR in a much less 'ideal enviroment' (as hadrians is) and allowing the low rr groups an rvr-bonus-zone that isn't wide open, as wide-open zones better suit high RR (more experienced) players. More-over, I'd even submit that a RP penalty should be placed on the high RR groups that chose to RvR in emain, further discouraging the [lets go gank newbs for easy rps] mentaility.

Additionally, a complete revamp of portal system would be a nice injection to the RvR system as even those few people who do still RvR wont be 'waiting on pad' for 4 minutes while the group that rolled them is standing around for 4 minutes waiting to roll em again.

On a side note, as a US player, my optimal playing time is WAY different from the server's peak time, ergo i find myself soloing quite a bit. That being said, I stoped my thergi @ 49, currently lvling a bard and ranger who will both also stop @ 49, and contemplaying a skald and rm who id stop @ 49. While i wish i could get higher RR than 4L2 with these toons, I'm willing to sacrifice that for the knowledge that I wont have to:

a) spend hours zerging emain just to farm bad rps in a manner which i dont enjoy
b) spend hours waiting on pad after high RR group rolled my pug
c) spend hours touring odins/hadrians with no action
d) did i mention spending hours dont ****** i dont like?

IMO the only real solution would be creating (staff read: promoting via bonuses) specific zones w/ specific bonuses and/or penalties such as solo, 4 man, and 8v8/zerg. otherwise, ill happily play my sc'd lvl 49.99 toons @ 4L2 till the server shuts down.

Disclaimer: To those of you who would say that the Thid-crowd is the problem, I actually agree. Moreover, I retort: I am the problem. I understand this completely. I dont care. I intend to spend my recreational time recreating, not being frusterated or bored. I have a job to generate these emotions and I feel no need to expand the quantity of time I am required to feel these emotions, expecially during my 'recreational time' or 'recreational activities.'

keys just fyi you can't /rp off on uthgard so at 4L2 you will be forced to go to 50 rvr

Braxis wrote:I totally agree with you Keyz.

But the answer to our problems can be twofold.
Either eliminating thid, or eliminating OF problems.

Now, which would you rather eliminate?

I for one would rather keep the fun part (thid) and try to fix OF with some measures that have already been stated for like a gazillion times already.

And for all those ppl who voted OF, why don't I see you all in RvR now?

But no biggie. Mistakes are a vital part of learning. As long as you learn from yours.
So, lets just add instant porters and keep only a few OF maps, custom fix the NF RAs and whatnot, and get the fun started again.

Hope that such a compromise helps both sides, wile not ruining the fun and making people leave this server.

Ill make this easier, and just quote myself.

rouxtm wrote:Again and again and again, PROMOTE Realm vs Realm
Can you give numerous exemples of a 15min or 30min Keep attack/defend??
This is what is so fun in DAoC!
Battlegroup of 3 or 4 groups minimum, 50 people or more both side for pure fun.
An army facing another army: one inside the keep, on walls, the other externally.
The first one trembling to loose the keep for any bonus/DF reason but in the best position to defend.
The other one trembling to crash against these defended walls but motivated by any Bonus/DF reason.

And don't say to me it is impossible on a 700 people server, I was playing on Carnac!!!

Most people simple dont like it
If they did, bgs would be empty and all the noname randoms would zerg the keeps. Its obvious no single guild fg can stop 30 man zerg or so. So stop writing bs about differences between pvp and rvr. Everyone will play the way he likes and i guess majority of this server already does

Its sad that atm staff is just forcing people to zerg...

Shav wrote:Most people simple dont like it
If they did, bgs would be empty and all the noname randoms would zerg the keeps. Its obvious no single guild fg cant stop 30 man zerg or so. So stop writing bs about differences between pvp and rvr. Everyone will play the way he likes and i guess majority of this server already does

Its sad that atm staff is just forcing people to zerg...

Agreed.
Totally.

Braxis wrote:

Shav wrote:Most people simple dont like it
If they did, bgs would be empty and all the noname randoms would zerg the keeps. Its obvious no single guild fg cant stop 30 man zerg or so. So stop writing bs about differences between pvp and rvr. Everyone will play the way he likes and i guess majority of this server already does

Its sad that atm staff is just forcing people to zerg...

Agreed.
Totally.

So why playing the only game which permits that sort of fun?
This is the specifity of DAoC and you don't like it?
It is like doing Taj and hating quest, non sense IMO

rouxtm wrote:So why playing the only game which permits that sort of fun?
This is the specifity of DAoC and you don't like it?
It is like doing Taj and hating quest, non sense IMO

Hm, someone might hate questing yet still do it to get some kind of sweet reward connected to the quest.

Also, DAoC is hardly the only game that permits zerging... the keepfights / objectivefights i had in warhammer were mostly all zergaction. Offcourse i only played that game two weeks, so don't really know what the situation is atm.

My two cents, getting xp spots to be worth it again will increase solo activity in peak and offtimes again.

I like the idea off homelands porting to keeps aswell. Port to the furthest frontier keep (eg. crauchon), unless it's under attack or enemy owned. If one of the last two conditions port to the next furthest keep, crimthain (if not enemy owned / under attack). Also, as on live, make the amount of keeps relate to the relicguards.

This would make keeptaking a far less rare, more tactical, more rewarding activity. And as a side-effect you could also cut the portaltimers to be more communityfriendly. But the biggest positive for this is, there should be fights on all the of maps in every realm.

It's not perfectly worked out, but imo keeps are the gateway to a better use of OF.

Check my topic in general english forum.

rouxtm wrote:So why playing the only game which permits that sort of fun?
This is the specifity of DAoC and you don't like it?
It is like doing Taj and hating quest, non sense IMO

You misunderstand DAoC.
If in your previous post is what you want, then go play WAR.

I myself am a Mordred addict, and nothing would please me more then to play on a PvP freeshard, but unfortunately Uthgard is the closest thing to that.

I play DAoC because its the only game that managed to create perfect PvP, which is only a step away from RvR.

Braxis wrote:

rouxtm wrote:So why playing the only game which permits that sort of fun?
This is the specifity of DAoC and you don't like it?
It is like doing Taj and hating quest, non sense IMO

You misunderstand DAoC.
If in your previous post is what you want, then go play WAR.

I myself am a Mordred addict, and nothing would please me more then to play on a PvP freeshard, but unfortunately Uthgard is the closest thing to that.

I play DAoC because its the only game that managed to create perfect PvP, which is only a step away from RvR.

WAR is the new game from DAoC editor, not existed when I started DAoC
WAR is not free yet

Braxis wrote:You misunderstand DAoC.

How would you know what is the intended idea of Mythic behind the game? You could certainly misunderstand DAoC too. In my opinion everybody makes DAoC to that what he wants.

Blue wrote:

Braxis wrote:You misunderstand DAoC.

How would you know what is the intended idea of Mythic behind the game? You could certainly misunderstand DAoC too. In my opinion everybody makes DAoC to that what he wants.

Well, you can only make DAoC to that what you want withing the perimeters set by the server setting and thus set by the staff.

If it allows for players to easily pick BG RvR as their fulltime version of DAoC, without any incentive to check out real end-RvR before level 49 RR 4L2 then that will happen.