in my few weeks here, id have to agree on the ranger situation.
well personally, i think ranger damage is way too high, due to dual wield and self buffs.

i was playing as VW and was duoed with a lower lvl ranger and everytime we fought something, he would always out dpsed me because mobs would always focus on him, even tho i was trying to taunt them and keep them on me.

i think just like viper, rangers are also set up for a regular server, where people would have buff bots, so that they would have a chance against a ranger. on this server, it would be quite difficult.

also, the fact that in Hib most teams are willing to take ranger over any other melee class as main DPS, should sort of give an idea of what is wrong with the class.

How is a ranger on live, more benificul with buffbots and so on , then here on uthgard. Is it the RA's ?

IP = % of current HP, which on uthgard the amount of HP healed is less because of the lack of buffbotting.

PD = % of damage taken and you have less HP, so you dont last as long and the damage you take from enemys is less because they dont have full buffs, so amout of dmg absorbed is not as much, but still same %.

CD = Well infi, NS both has the exact same type of dual wielding. THe only diffrence is the ranger has a few buffs, which help a little, but only a little as he is on a lower table. Plus when he gets 118 str/con debuff, which by the way is much stronger then lives revamp of the poions. There stats greatly drop and have less WS/damage and health.

Self Buffs = On live they have buffbots which allow rangers to ignore there PF and spec more into melee, so there damage and dual hit chance would be even higher on live, compared to uthgard.

Dual Wield Defense bonus = Just like everyone who dual wields weapons, they also get the same bonuses. Same with the 2h defense bonuses.

Its easy to single out a class and say everything they got is what makes them over powered, while they ignore the fact that many other classes on uthgard have simular skills or even very strong ones. Volley had made tons of Rangers, and a daoc community hates stealthers, but nothing more then an archer, so with all the rangers made back when volley issue was going on, that is why rangers are in the spot light. Nothing new, just pure hate for them for being stealthers, and for being a ranged stealther. Now the focus didnt go to the scout or hunter, for one reason. The scout depends more on there bow then any of the other archers for dmg, and bow damage isnt what it could be, and the hunter is lacking some support in the area of his bet and other bugs related to there class.

Eclipsed wrote: Volley had made tons of Rangers,

NOT true...not volley made the rangers....but the perma-QQ about how imba that class is.
because 99% of all the ranger played and still play melee only...some even dont know they have a bowskil

Eclipsed wrote: and a daoc community hates stealthers, but nothing more then an archer,

well thats just a comunity-problem...because most stealther add, and thats why they are hated. its not because they can stealth.

Eclipsed wrote: so with all the rangers made back when volley issue was going on, that is why rangers are in the spot light.

its were only handfull ranger who abused a bug...it was NOT volley, volley where just used WITH the bug..but it was not the bug (you could jump INTO the milewall, there you were invisible, immune to ''lastattacker'', immune to melee attacks, immune to magic attacks, only thing that could hurt you was PBAE and GTAE, but you saw all outside..so the ranger stood there...prepaired volley..waited..and fired into any fight at AMG)...scroll down the ban-forum...you will find only 1 ranger (in german we would call that Bauernopfer) banned for abusing a MASSIVE milegate-bug FOR WEEKS and he only got 3 weeks ban (the mates who abused it with him were simple untouched for no reason). this ban was just a joke (should have resulted in either a complete RP-deletion because at the time he got banned he got 80% of his RP from abusing that bug or a permaban). but its not up to me to judge.

Eclipsed wrote: Now the focus didnt go to the scout or hunter, for one reason. The scout depends more on the bow then any of the other archers for dmg, and bow damage isnt what it could be, and the hunter is lacking some support in the area of his bet and other bugs related to there class.

now thats the only true statement of you.

Eclipsed wrote:Self Buffs = On live they have buffbots which allow rangers to ignore there PF and spec more into melee, so there damage and dual hit chance would be even higher on live, compared to uthgard.

My hunter is 50 bow and 44 spear. I decided this spec cause pet damage sux.
If i have 32 in bc, i can have the same value buffs from charges.
I think rangers can do the same too.

in response to all those things Ecplised mentioned..

its the addition of lots of small things why rangers are termed OPed

NF RAs (when archers(studded) wearers can get pd)
so say get toughness III PD IV, and IP II... all these three are synergistic, and will make people who try and kill you in melee will do very small damage.

your a bow class (w/ rapid fire) so can kill or at least interupt any ranged attacker and force some of them to melee (e.g. Thane) see above. but most people who will fight you are stealthers so will start in melee range if they can (see below).

you can specc MoS to get equal stealth detection as an assasin class, but then have Camouflage, which renders you invisible to them. this means you are more likely to get a crit shot off against an assasin than an assasin getting a PA off on you (stupid scenario really)!

then once u are fighting this SB/inf/hunter/scout etc....you will be doing more damage (dmg add, high melee specc(easy sidestun), strbuff) and also because DW halfs evade and block rates. (SB/inf get DW too so this evens out). Yet from watching fights it seems that rangers with evade iii hit more often than assasins with evade Vii, this is probly an effect of the dex/qui buff (and dex charge if u use em), but possibly could be that rangers are on the wrong WS table (or no WS tables exist).
SBs/Infs specced viper 3 and repoison every round gives in effect a huge damage add everyattack (PD no effect) should tear through ranger hps. but there is no doubt viper 3 is overpowered.. sadly must be abused to kill rangers.

In the event an assasin is winning.. ranger can use IP or if that is down speed or rr5 to get away to come back later and try again.

in the event the ranger is winning... assasin can remedy (useless), or vanish, vanish is useless cos ranger can see you (see above).


and if anyone is in need of evidence. look at lwrps, then try and argue that rangers are getting merely their fair share.

Old frontier RAs would help this alot and in that setting i am pretty sure they wouldnt be as bad, however by that time all the rangers now (and the tons lvling as i write this) will be high RR!!!!!

ps (i know this may take alot of RR to get all these abilities... but the speed rangers are getting RPs, it wouldnt take very much time).
pps (viper3 is not a viable argument for rangers being balanced.. it is a blatently overpowered RA).

@Blitze
You must really be ... ok. Dont wont to get banned

Thane: Make face, engage run a little bit until the heavy attack is out, instant rupt and begin to cast= where is the thane forced into melee.

Of course assassins make less damage on pd4 or 5 rangers but on pd4 vs a debuffed ranger the difference isnt that high. Some posts are really a shame especially if some other guys who actually play a ranger and other chars too stated the difference to your whine posts.

@Terragon
Wow, low lvl experience in pvm

Blitze wrote:and if anyone is in need of evidence. look at lwrps, then try and argue that rangers are getting merely their fair share.

i need evidence....
i just took a look at the lwrps....
and i must come to the conclusion ....
that hib is simply OP !!!

terragon wrote:in my few weeks here, id have to agree on the ranger situation.
well personally, i think ranger damage is way too high, due to dual wield and self buffs.

i was playing as VW and was duoed with a lower lvl ranger and everytime we fought something, he would always out dpsed me because mobs would always focus on him, even tho i was trying to taunt them and keep them on me.

i think just like viper, rangers are also set up for a regular server, where people would have buff bots, so that they would have a chance against a ranger. on this server, it would be quite difficult.

also, the fact that in Hib most teams are willing to take ranger over any other melee class as main DPS, should sort of give an idea of what is wrong with the class.

i can't understand why, after post like these (thx to Terragon, maybe the only hib the see the EVIDENCE) we continue to talk.

Was posted some threads ago a video with the aim to show us how strong are rangers on live, and i have answered all showing how, this video, make nothing to show how damn OP are rangers here
(u Ronia not answered me how go on Uthgard against a paladin, a friar, a scout/hunter compared to how is shown on video ... anyway is clear that on this video 90% of players was ruinning without potions, just see the buffs they drops).

There is only Eclipsed (that mayne is a old Purga player i know, always frustrated to how was performing the ranger on Purga ... se LIKE IT SHOULD BE ... that try to argue rangers here are not OP for the fear to lose his toy that make feel him, and all the other rangers, good).

There isn't nothing other to say, after this posts and after u see things like:

- every day on emain rangers kill 1/2 infs/sb's at time;
- every day rangers kill mercs if ip is up (LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL)
- rangers taking advatange from all new ra's system while all other chars are still playing like was at 1.60 (infs don 't have 9sec dragon fang, sb's are fixed and don't have side stun etc etc)
- rangers are any day on top of weekly rp's BY FAR compared to sb's/infs/ns/hunters/scout
- rangers never get evaded from evade 7 infs/sb's dealing basically the same damage of a BM with lower str

and so on ...

there isn't nothing other to say

check WS and damage table
fix something going wrong on WS against evade/block
give back old ra's
give back old toys to other chars too (df 9secs for exemple)

and make the game LIKE WAS on 1.60/1.70 (no MOS, no PD, and yeah no VIPER).

maybe infs/sb's will die against higher rr melee ranger with UP/PURGE UP (every 30mins) but, like it should, will kill they on melee and will die if attacked from range (not while steatlhed ....)

i remember when camouflage was introduced, and was a good thing.

all archers was QQ'ING because they got PA on face every time, and Myth answered the archers are archers, must stay far from assassins and attack from range with his bow skill

not little BM's with stealth, camoflage, more dps etc etc that can easly side stun a full stealther char (infs/sb's) not seeing him and killing him on 4/5 swings.

U want a pure melee stealthers?

Ns is your answer, is too easy play a damn bugged char with all new toys against chars that still play at 1.60 abilities

p.s.
staff want stay with new ra's up?


this can be a choice too.
but, for exemple, start with give all steatlhers the change on critical skill (debuff abs on hamstring for exemple)
then give us legenday weapons so i can fight a ranger with cold rapier and i will have bonus
give friars heals styles
give sb's/zerks styles procs
etc etc

with this things, u will see all changing a lot, but, damn, WHY, and i repeat WHY rangers can play with all this toys while the other must stay with old stuffs?

i really can't understand ...

@realac0 you must really be insane. Just the comparison of patch 1.70 and 1.91 and mixing both together as new stuff shows that you clearly have a desperate biased ranger view.

I wont answer anymore to such joke posts. Just ask Caroli he is a good paladin and he knows how to play - nuff said.[/b]

Ronian wrote:@realac0 you must really be insane. Just the comparison of patch 1.70 and 1.91 and mixing both together as new stuff shows that you clearly have a desperate biased ranger view.

I wont answer anymore to such joke posts. Just ask Caroli he is a good paladin and he knows how to play - nuff said.[/b]

Ronian, when i have comparised patch?
sorry of that ... i don t understand ...

i ave point that if dev's want stay with this settings ra's (new ra's system) give us all new toys (patch >1.8x don't remember what is)

if want come back (like i hope) remove ALL and give back ALL like was

this is what i said ...

anyway about paladins, i have maybe fight 1 time against a ranger with mine, is a pally done for play on grp so, maybe again, u don't have understand the point. I just want u admin that, when u fight a paladin, cause u are totally out of control, u dont' need:

IP/PURGA/RR5 run, play well etc etc to lose anyway (like shown on video), u just kill him without any problem.

but u'll never admit it ... like u'll never admit that every solo char on this server is free rp's for u and any other ranger >rr5

u said to post the video, not me that's why i'd like to know how u perform against this class here compared to the video (hunters, friars, paladin, scout fights ... and all archers was bow spec, easy to see because all trying to use bow when possible ...)

again, u'll never admit it so, have fun whit your bugged chars taking advantage to all other players and be happy because, seem, dev's think this is correct

c u

p.s.
like already said, i remember u i dont have a bad idea of rangers, i played one till a decent rank on live (AFTER TOA, before, when rangers was damn gimped compared to post-1.8x, i was playing assassins) and i know BETTER THAN U how it shold work

Uthgard is capped at patch 1.80, that means no style review of patch 1.91 or really old op 9 sec stun (inf is the only class who can spec 50 thrust without problems as a stealther because of the most spec points in the game). Sure 9 sec stun on a stealther is not op

What exactly is bugged with rangers?

Eclipsed wrote:CD = Well infi, NS both has the exact same type of dual wielding. THe only diffrence is the ranger has a few buffs, which help a little, but only a little as he is on a lower table.

May I ask where you got that information from? According to Daocpedia, Archers and Assassins are on the same Melee WS Table(1,8 ) (usage of bows is 2,2).

Your point with str/con debuff is interesting though. Has the debuff effect always been that strong or was it changed with NF? If yes the current testings on live deliver too high values for Uthgard setting/balance like Viper.

Didn't read, but ranger is op. No need for a discussion imo. Just a fact.

Everyone who says theyre not palys one or is xping one

massivmampfer wrote:

Eclipsed wrote:CD = Well infi, NS both has the exact same type of dual wielding. THe only diffrence is the ranger has a few buffs, which help a little, but only a little as he is on a lower table.

May I ask where you got that information from? According to Daocpedia, Archers and Assassins are on the same Melee WS Table(1,8 ) (usage of bows is 2,2).

Your point with str/con debuff is interesting though. Has the debuff effect always been that strong or was it changed with NF? If yes the current testings on live deliver too high values for Uthgard setting/balance like Viper.

my god Eclipsed ... my god ... u really think rangers are on different dmg type from assassins? lol ... ah yeah, u are trying to let us think that rangers here are not op ... sry, forget this lol

anyway don't worry, u here are not on the right table on my opinion, u are a little small bm running around stealthed

@massivmampfer
whith NF (but if i remember well was some patch before, but of this i am not sure) there was a huge change cause from fact that some classes (see friars, lol, but thrust infs too and yeah, pierce rangers/ns too) was having a really huge advantage on debuff because was based on STR/CON (like here).
So, basically full str melee chars (see Shadowblades/zerkers/blade rangers/slash infs etc) was QQ'ing about the fact that if str based damage they was going to sux too mutch.

u know pierce/thrust is based on 50% dex/50% str so, for exemple, a thrust inf against an sb was going to have a lot more cut on Weapons skill (around 50%) than a slash inf (100%).

so Myth mada a change, and the new poisons have become WS/CON debuff (weapon skill/constitution not anymore strengh/constitution).

With this, any type of str or hybrid str/dex based melee char, had the same amout on cut on WS and all was fun

point that, here on Uthgard, we are still at old str/con debuffs (and this is correct because we want to emulate old daoc days) and anyway:

Friars SUX HARD against sb's/ns's even if they are 100% DEX BASED
like i have write some post before, my friar dex is 315 with self buffs, and ws is around 13xx, when i fight an sb i got ANY CHANGE on my ws, but, anyway, even if with:
more dex/qui
more ws
evade 5
i get evade 9 swings on 10 and dye (but i think i die mainly for viper 3)

this explain again and again, that a lot of things on melee system is not working, and that's why, like i wrote some posts ago, i continue to say that on old days, some chars like friars, was performing BY FAR better than here, on damage, on evade skills, on enemy defence etc

Ronian wrote:Uthgard is capped at patch 1.80, that means no style review of patch 1.91 or really old op 9 sec stun (inf is the only class who can spec 50 thrust without problems as a stealther because of the most spec points in the game). Sure 9 sec stun on a stealther is not op

What exactly is bugged with rangers?

i edited all, i agree all this post is now totally pointless!!
if u and dev's have understand well, on other situation no change for me, i already stopped play steathers since nothing will be changed, so is ok
(lol i invite all infs/sb's to play other chars, is pointless play against gods stealthed hitting like bm's, let they fight each other at dl ^_^)

--------
WHAT IS OP ON RANGERS?
--------

i think u already had your answer:

- NEW RA'S SYSTEM NEED TO BE CHANGED
- WS IS FOR SURE BUGGED and change balance on evade rate of your opponents
- there is something wrong on the dmg base table where rangers are here (see: they are doing by far more damage that what are supposed to do)

that's all, u are taking advantage from all new things (side stun, new ra's etc) that was implemented BY FAR LATER on daoc, while, here, all chars are still on old setting

--------
ABOUT 9 SECS STUN on THRUST LINE
--------

yeah, i think if we want old settings and the old daoc feeling, this line need it.


ok i stop to flame on this post.

cu;)