Demiurgo wrote:Read the whole quote
"This will cost few rps for the fg, but it will bring more people in rvr => more rp for everyone "

This is what usually happens:
1 - There is a fg of you realm doing rvr. You want to do rvr too so you go solo/with your small group looking for some enemy
2 - The enemy fg kill you, you and your group quit and leave the job to your realm fg.

Result is: 1 fg each realm, when there is more people they quit.

Instead of quitting maybe they should invite more ? Who's fault is that huh ? The people who are more and are there for RvR or those outnumbered who don't try to bring them rvr instead just quit like whiny babies after dying once in a 8v10 fight or so.

Demiurgo wrote:What could happen if we respect group size:
1- There is a fg of your realm doing rvr. You go to do rvr solo/small group and you meet the enemy fg which DON'T KILL YOU. In the other realm they say: "there is a x men group in agramon". You go on running a bit and from the other realm soon will come a group with your groupsize.

Will never happen. It's REALM VERSUS REALM, not TEAM VS TEAM. I don't give a flying fu** how badly outnumbered someone is, if I see one kobold and there's 3 FGs of us I'll shout in the battlegroup that there's a kobold in X direction, go kill it. Leaving him alone will not produce anything different then killing him. In either case he could bring more people, try his luck again solo (Stahlhagel <3 ;p ) or just log off.

Demiurgo wrote:2- You fight with your opponent group, you win/die take some more people, enemy will do the same.

We already do on hibernia, without any silly leave-the-smaller-groups-alone rules made up based on some completely unreal hypothesis. If we're outnumbered or losing badly we always try to even the odds by bringing more people.

Demiurgo wrote:3- Next run you meet a smaller enemy group running and you say it in your realm, so other people can join the rvr and fight them.

What effect will that have ? If they're sore losers they'll log off no matter who they die to, be it a fg or a 3v3 fight. If they're any kind of a decent player they'll try again and/or bring more people. Again, your "rules" have no impact here.

Demiurgo wrote:Quick result is: all people who wants to do rvr can really do it.
Long time result: people will start going agramon because there is action, more action than bg, there could be more than one fg each realm + smaller groups + solos =>
-if people will die vs higher/better groups they can try again till they inc groups they can fight with fun.
-if a group quit/join none cares, everyone does rvr till he wants

Wow you just perfectly described the CURRENT situation in agramon, as far as my own realm is concerned. I can't speak for mids/albs.

Demiurgo wrote:This will bring more people = more rps for you if is it what you want and more lv 50 rvr play to make me happy and more more players for uthgard server to make staff happy too^ so everyone will be happy.

No simply ignoring outnumbered fights will not bring more people to agramon and will never happen unless the Uthgard staff decides to make it a rule (which would be retarded). Quitters will be quitters.

Demiurgo wrote:P.S. Read all before post^

I always do read everything, quoting a single paragraph does not mean I didn't read the whole post, it simply pointing out to the part which I'm replying to.

Basically here's what you want, summarized;

An new environment created in Agramon without anyone losing everyone gaining -> impossible;
by the very same people!!!! who create the current environment (YES! the same quitters, whiners, ideal setup runners etc.) -> impossible.
You want people who RvR for realm points to ignore smaller groups (thus ignore their goal; killing the enemies, gaining rps) HOPING to give another smaller group which maybe isn't even there a "fair fight".

Personally I RvR for fun. Dying as well can be fun if it was a good fight (one that lasted for longer then a minute) and there's no way in hell I'd ever let an enemy go if I can catch and kill it.
If you can tab it, stab it.

tazok wrote:i'm personally not a big fan of equal groupsizes, cause this will limit the fun. Even if we leave out the differences in individual classes/skills/ra's and just look at groups setup, you'll notice that some group setups are just superiour to others.

When you have an equal size limitation this will result in best group setup wins. Now this is all dandy if the pool in which people can make groups is unlimited . however in uthgarth it's severly limited and often the only way to balance a fight is when one side brings more people, take this away and fights will be non-existant.

In the current form all kinds of rvr are served too. rvr begins with solo's..then duo's come..then trios etc..till the mighty zerg or if two realm give up. if this happens people will log and the cycle begins from beginning again.

I'm not a fun of same number fights too, I didn't spend words to this aspect because the point was another. If there is a 5men hib group without bard/druid, even a 3-4 men group of another realm could kill him. So the enemy groupnumber is just an indicative information. But if you say "there are 4 BA running in agramon" (sorry to use always this guild ) you know they will have the best setup possible, so it's better you go with the same number with good setup, or with someone more^. If you don't find you can always try.

Flamingfury wrote:Instead of quitting maybe they should invite more ? Who's fault is that huh ? The people who are more and are there for RvR or those outnumbered who don't try to bring them rvr instead just quit like whiny babies after dying once in a 8v10 fight or so.

Do you think people don't try to call for help? Every time I try there are 2 chances:
1-None answer/came in a total of 60+ players in the realm
2-If there is already a fg they say: "There is already a mid fg in agramon, we don't wanna zerg".
What would you do?

Flamingfury wrote:Will never happen. It's REALM VERSUS REALM, not TEAM VS TEAM. I don't give a flying fu** how badly outnumbered someone is, if I see one kobold and there's 3 FGs of us I'll shout in the battlegroup that there's a kobold in X direction, go kill it. Leaving him alone will not produce anything different then killing him. In either case he could bring more people, try his luck again solo (Stahlhagel <3 ;p ) or just log off.

I said the same exactly thing few months ago if you look in some my old post
But you can't think in this way if the server is in this bad situation (yes, for me 200players and max 16 in rvr in prime time is a bad situation).
I prefer to try to build a rispect for other players to bring most people in rvr, then, when there will be about half of population always in rvr, we could go back to the "kill everything alive".

And tell me: for you it's more team vs team the rvr I described or the 1 fg vs 1 fg of actual rvr?

Flamingfury wrote:What effect will that have ? If they're sore losers they'll log off no matter who they die to, be it a fg or a 3v3 fight. If they're any kind of a decent player they'll try again and/or bring more people. Again, your "rules" have no impact here.

I don't know what other people do, but I played around 3 hours of rvr in one day in a 3 men group vs 3 albs trio, we died most of times but I enjoyed the fights.

If my group would have been killed by fg albs, I bet we would have done usual "fg albs in agramon, need people", wait 10 minutes and then quit.

Maybe you don't know that "/bring more people" slash command is not implmented yet.

About your "decent player" description. At old emain time I tried to run solo with a fg hib running around (while I was calling for people). None came from mid realm, and I went alone for aboun 1 hours being killed from the same hib group around 11-12 times. Is this what you call "decent player"?

Flamingfury wrote:Wow you just perfectly described the CURRENT situation in agramon, as far as my own realm is concerned. I can't speak for mids/albs.

So this is why yesterday I met a fg+some hib which went inside keep and then quit after being killed from fg mid? And of course if agra keep woulnd't have been hib they wouldn't have came back.
It's not really the situation I was thinking about.

Flamingfury wrote:No simply ignoring outnumbered fights will not bring more people to agramon and will never happen unless the Uthgard staff decides to make it a rule (which would be retarded). Quitters will be quitters.

First I have to specify that for outnumbered I mean 4 vs 8 or 6 vs 3, not 4 vs 3 or 6 vs 4.

A rule would be a bad thing because should be most of players to decide to do it.
Personally I always come back when I'm alone and i'm killed from 1 enemy or 2 enemies which i have a chance to kill. I come back also when I lose a fight at more or less same number. I definitelly don't come back when I'm alone or in 2-3 and I'm killed by a fg (of course after I've waited for 20 min for mids which won't come)

Flamingfury wrote:An new environment created in Agramon without anyone losing everyone gaining -> impossible;
by the very same people!!!! who create the current environment (YES! the same quitters, whiners, ideal setup runners etc.) -> impossible.
You want people who RvR for realm points to ignore smaller groups (thus ignore their goal; killing the enemies, gaining rps) HOPING to give another smaller group which maybe isn't even there a "fair fight".

Personally I RvR for fun. Dying as well can be fun if it was a good fight (one that lasted for longer then a minute) and there's no way in hell I'd ever let an enemy go if I can catch and kill i

You didn't catch my idea in these points:
1- I don't say everyone win, I sai everyone fight vs enemy they could face
2- the current people are the bigger problem, but to me it's not because they are quitters, whiners, ecc.. (of course there are lot of them) but most of uthgard players are new players, they came in the server and looked that in lv 50 rvr there is max a fg for realm and the running fg are all good players, so why go there to be farmed?
3- There are 2 kinds of people: people who wants rp and people who wanna play. I belong to the latter. Anyway also people which have fun making rps should understand that is better don't do 600 rp from a 3 men group 1 time (because they will rel and quit) each day to wait for more people so they will be able to kill first 1 fg, than another fg and than another one ecc.. till the next come back again

Look at this idea like a culture rotation, take a bit less today to have much more tomorrow

Demiurgo wrote:Do you think people don't try to call for help? Every time I try there are 2 chances:
1-None answer/came in a total of 60+ players in the realm
2-If there is already a fg they say: "There is already a mid fg in agramon, we don't wanna zerg".
What would you do?

Make my own group and go rvr regardless of how many other groups of my own realm are out there. There will always be keeps and towers to take.

Demiurgo wrote:I said the same exactly thing few months ago if you look in some my old post
But you can't think in this way if the server is in this bad situation (yes, for me 200players and max 16 in rvr in prime time is a bad situation).
I prefer to try to build a rispect for other players to bring most people in rvr, then, when there will be about half of population always in rvr, we could go back to the "kill everything alive".

Not killing someone in rvr won't give you anyone's respect. I used to run solo plenty, I expected that if I run into a fg that I'd die, and I did, no one ever ran past me just ignoring me and guess what, I don't mind. I never thought "oh what assholes they zerged me I totally hate them now". That's what RvR is all about anyway. If I go solo it's my own risk of encountering full groups and dying. I can't blame anyone but myself. Same goes for any other person going solo or with fewer numbers full knowingly there's an opposing realm's fg running about.

Demiurgo wrote:And tell me: for you it's more team vs team the rvr I described or the 1 fg vs 1 fg of actual rvr?

Er, what ?

Demiurgo wrote:I don't know what other people do, but I played around 3 hours of rvr in one day in a 3 men group vs 3 albs trio, we died most of times but I enjoyed the fights.

Yay, high five!

Demiurgo wrote:If my group would have been killed by fg albs, I bet we would have done usual "fg albs in agramon, need people",wait 10 minutes and then quit.

Nice self-own there.

Demiurgo wrote:Maybe you don't know that "/bring more people" slash command is not implmented yet.

Maybe you don't know what trying harder is. Good example is the self-own you just displayed in the previous paragraph.

Demiurgo wrote:About your "decent player" description. At old emain time I tried to run solo with a fg hib running around (while I was calling for people). None came from mid realm, and I went alone for aboun 1 hours being killed from the same hib group around 11-12 times. Is this what you call "decent player"?

Well if you can't get anyone to join you after spamming broad for 1 hour, I'd say the problem is somewhere between the chair and the PC.

Demiurgo wrote:So this is why yesterday I met a fg+some hib which went inside keep and then quit after being killed from fg mid? And of course if agra keep woulnd't have been hib they wouldn't have came back.
It's not really the situation I was thinking about.

I don't understand what's the problem. Sadly I wasn't there last night but I don't see anything wrong with what you just wrote. Hibs died, relogged inside the ck and continued on ? What's the problem there ?

Demiurgo wrote:First I have to specify that for outnumbered I mean 4 vs 8 or 6 vs 3, not 4 vs 3 or 6 vs 4.

That's some funky math/logic you have there. To be outnumbered means to exceed a number of... something else. Thus 1v2 is outnumbered, 3v4 is outnumbered, 7v8 is outnumbered, 299 vs 300 is outnumbered.

Demiurgo wrote:I definitelly don't come back when I'm alone or in 2-3 and I'm killed by a fg (of course after I've waited for 20 min for mids which won't come)

Well if you can't gather a group of your own realm, how is that the other realms' fault ?

*And theres the dong!*

*Judges may we have your final verdict?*

*The verdict is in and the winner is...*

*FLAMINGFURY! <holds up Flamingfury's arm>*

<Crowd goes wild>

fury seemingly has no clue... +headshake and leave+

Coming from someone who got banned for whining about adding on irc, and making whinethreads because lagjumping got fixed and his cleric can't exploit it anymore, I really feel horrible now that you have judged my opinion

Btw it's your kind who ruin agramon rvr whiners, complainers and exploiters. Sorry for chain killing your perfect setup rvr group 2 days ago with a random group with druids and bard below lvl 50, sucks for you having lagjump fixed eh

uhuhuu wahahah im so depressed now. you know your words do a damn ****** of nothing on me. firts of all im no exploiter and im only flaming about the adders (like YOU), WHO actually ruin the rvr. thats the how it goes and not the way round.

and about rvr. random or not , all of us (included me) just played bad that day (especially our lag-merc +cough+) and you cant do any support while permaruppted from 3 bards. so go and rubb, be happy , whatever... Wanna see you doing anything if we run with 3 theurgs or so°°

We had 1 bard (Lou) so I dunno whacha talking about.

Btw "adders" in tardspeak are actually people who rvr normally, who engage fights as they should, so why would that ruin rvr ? If you suck too much to engage fights on a larger scale don't blame others for that, quit and play another game instead of just complaining. That wasn't pointed towards you, but everyone who ever complained about "adding".

I'm just saying that anyone who tried to limit other people's experience in RvR by forbidding them to engage (in a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER online game) is a retard. That is all.

I'm gonna be the bigger man and walk away from this conversation.

are the gm and moderator all in hollydays?

why this stopic is still on and flaming not yet jailed?

Yeah, I wonder why aren't they jailing people

then youre talking about some other day, however you cant force players to gather another zerg. and thats your problem. if you come with 14 ppl or so and other realm just cant offer so many , they gonna quit. --> adders fault and thats it.

yeah...but there must be a reason why a realm cant compete with a 14 people "zerg". I dont think that the so called adders are to blame for. Maybe its the realm that has structural flawes and doesnt offer the chance to run with more then fg. You should include more people in rvr instead of calling them adders and ruin their day in agramon. With that opinion you will always loose against some more players ( unless you plan together wih other realms )

well i cant call any albs adders , cause there arent any of em. but i dont understand why the enemys are not able to split up their groups , if they see that the other realm cant come with more ppl..

Holundermann wrote:and about rvr. random or not , all of us (included me) just played bad that day (especially our lag-merc +cough+) and you cant do any support while permaruppted from 3 bards. so go and rubb, be happy , whatever... Wanna see you doing anything if we run with 3 theurgs or so°°

Then why dont you gather 10 clerics and go berserk healing. BTW bards mostly get 1-2 shot so i really don't see why youre whining. And btw if you wanna play 8v8 without adds you really should try counterstrike. It's obviously too hard to comprehend that daoc is mmorpg.

Someone said that flaming is "forcing" people into rvr? How can you force people into something? he held his gun on their head? What you dont understand is that PEOPLE WANT TO RVR but you, with your stupid "no adds" spam ruin their expirience.

Plz this topic was out of flame for so long If you don't want to read our flood-posts don't try to create flame^ just close this forum window^

I'm sick to copy quote so I reply with points
1- Very brave but you know that your "regardless of how many other groups of my own realm are out there" has no sense because your group will be the ONLY one outside there^
There will be always towers and keeps to take :O? I'm not sure we have endless tower/keep and most people get bored of siege-enemy zerg routine.
2- "Not killing someone in rvr won't give you anyone's respect."
Are you sure of this?
This is the usual problem. You got fg, I'm solo, none comes in agramon. So you won't have enemies and I won't have enemy. Is it a solution to kill me 1 times so I quit (and then you will quit too)?
3-

Demiurgo wrote:If my group would have been killed by fg albs, I bet we would have done usual "fg albs in agramon, need people",wait 10 minutes and then quit.

Nice self-own there.

Of course you forgot that my group was of 3 PLAYERS KILLED BY A FG.

4- tryng harder? You have no idea of how much time I wasted waiting for people and how many days^
If I wait just 10-20 minutes it's only because I get bored to wait for nothing, because I know that if none comes in 10-20 minutes I could wait 2 hours but none will come.
Maybe YOU didn't ever tried hard

5- Explain me why sometime it works and other times (most of times) don't.

6-They don't continued on.

7- In fact I didn't used outnumbered in the previous post, but I said it because someone introduced it For "outnumbered" I meant a too much imbalanced fight

8- It's not other realm fault, it's not even players fault because actually bg's have more action than main rvr zone.
Of course we can try this balanced fights, but if you and all others players prefer to play in bg and never see more than 8 players in agramon, ok.