but shouldnt be dots counted on resists also? dunno if im right,but afaik i got 160 dmg by salbei with no resis-malus.per tick.

Well, now I pa normally. Something like 50% on tanks, more on casters, depends on luck, cause critical adds 200 dmg, with mop3, you have cca 20% chance for critical. On ora frostalf chain user, I hitted pa+critical+poison+left hand+left hand critical+proc with 3.9 weap speed and it didn't kill him, he was on 90-95%.

Stealthers now are in easy mode, just check emain kill mesages, Rentina, Drazahr, Luekeen, Panachachin, Salbei and so on, every stealther with viper can kill all DaoC Clases without eny effort. I think that shouldn't be that way, but it's just an opinion. The PA damage? i'm ok with that, the stealther have to be patient, get some luck as intended no just hit run/vanish/hit again/owned.

I have not had the ability to test PA damage on uthgard (although I have been the recipient of a few PA's ) so i cannot really tell whether there is an issue or not. From what I understand the PA mechanics should work similarly to the following:


http://p208.ezboard.com/Weapon-Spec-doe ... 4830.topic

Perforate Artery damage = 75 + Critical Strike Spec * 9 + Base Damage

Backstab II damage = 45 + Critical Strike Spec * 6 + Base Damage

Backstab I damage = ~5 + Critical Strike Spec * 14 / 3 + Base Damage





Where base damage is the calculated normal base damage range of the assassin. This is affected by abs/resists as well. Then the critical strike spec factors come in.

Now what I am not sure of is whether or not after this calculation is performed, does it go through another abs / resist check again on the target. It would seem that it 'should' but I have no supporting information to indicate one way or the other at this time. I just thought it would be interesting to point it out.


The PA cap should be as per what wyrd described here

http://www.keeperofshadows.com/melee/index.html


In regard to the way damage is calculated, I believe that there are issues across the board with it. As i mention in my bow damage testing, cloth users (in regard to range damage, no conclusive melee testing has been done on cloth atm) suffer the lowest damage per attack. The damage output as a ratio actually INCREASES vs higher abs/af targets. Now whether or not there is something fishy going on with melee, I will need some more testers to assist me with gathering data to offer any thing in the form of a statistical comparison. I do believe however that if the uthgard damage calculatio formula is general (and not specific to particular classes) then the ranged damage testing could be an indicator of some serious issues with the way damage is calculated here, as per the ranged testing shows when compared to live logs. On that note, the issue with bow damage is that it is 'NOT ' doing enough damage vs all targets (especially cloth). This situation may be the opposite in regard to melee damage (in that melee for some are actually doing TOO much) but again I will admit to having no real conclusive data to draw conclusions on at this time.

You can see some of my findings thus far


Melee test summary: (incompleted)

http://talsyra.tripod.com/daocmechanics ... mmary.html


Ranged test sumary:

http://talsyra.tripod.com/daocmechanics ... mmary.html



On the issue with poisons...they should be able to be swapped in/out at will by the assassin as per live was. At present I think there is an immunity timer on most of them. One particularly nasty bug though is that the snare poisons are giving the target an in-combat timer for the full length of the poison, allowing the assassin to kite/repa indefinitely until their target is dead. All poisons/spells/etc are only supposed to keep a player in combat for the initial 10 sec timer after the attack hits, so long as the player is not attacked further, hence the bug. I believe this is the only main issue i see with assassins at this time of which I believe ought to be fixed as soon as possible.

DanGer666 wrote:but shouldnt be dots counted on resists also? dunno if im right,but afaik i got 160 dmg by salbei with no resis-malus.per tick.

They do, but you cant see it, like melee-styles or other magic-damage.
Only the lifebane-user see it.

And Jonty, casters havent a chance against assasins normally, thats (DAoC)life.
Create a lifetap-nuker, make him high-rr and give him Moc3, PD5 and purge.
Or wait for Bonedancer healpets. Then you can gank assasins:)

Stealthers now are in easy mode, just check emain kill mesages, Rentina, Drazahr, Luekeen, Panachachin, Salbei and so on, every stealther with viper can kill all DaoC Clases without eny effort

its not that kind of easy, you meet a slam tank and have purge not up, you re dead, when tank can play his char. just skilling viper and then owning every enemy is not the way it is.

sure you have lots of killmessages and its true that some stealthers kill a lot of enemies, but lots of these enemies are bad equipped, not even 50 have no resists or not even purge. when you read like 5 killmsgs in 10 mins. from a known assasin that doesnt mean hes too strong, mots of the time he just farmed some onehit victims, that shouldnt leave tk alone.

every good stealther knows exactly which enemy he can attack and what he needs for killing him. i would never attack a thane for example without having purge up, and even with its a very hard fight, cause he just slams, st and nukes you down. same is with other classes, most skalds are victims but some gonna kick your ass, so you dont attack them,like harting or thunaer (dealing over 100 extra dmg per hit with aog).

to pick a class and taking its best players to see whether its op or not, is no good method. cause in every class you will have very good players here on uthgard killing everything, so it may seem that class is op (most wardens kill grps of 2-3 enemies, the good skalds easily kill everything, ....)

and that sometimes killing tanks is easy also depends on the enemies, i often kill reavers that just have twf as the one and only ra, so they die instantly when theycatch pa+cd+poison+folowing hits+dmgadd but not cause im op but cause they just got no purge with rr4Lx, rofl.
same for other tanks, skilling DET5 what is good for grp play but getting killed by an assassin, cause they lack ras like purge and ip they may need to stand a good stealther.
also there are lots of tanks that just play bad...i often saw tanks needing 3-4 sec. to switch from slam to 2handed weapon and i wondered what they re doing ?

killing a tank that is skilled for soloplay is very hard and not like you say easymode. and casters should be easy to kill and it was like taht on live to when i played there (and i played a long time without bb vs. fullbuffed enemies). just because casters are the main targets for a stealther. as an assassin its your destiny to kill solo enemies, so its absolutely ok to do this effectively, cause normally there are not much solo enemies, when the zerg starts at primetime you can just leech rps by adding grp fights. an assassin is highly specialzed for solo play so its normal that he kills solo enemies especially when they are skilled for grp play. when you meet an enemy also skilled for solo play he may easily kick your ass (how kill a tank with purge, ip2-3 and toughness, or a moc3 lifedrain caster ?).
its just different playstlyes meeting on the battlefield, so dont wonder when a high specialized solo class with just solo ras kills a grp skilled char.

and last but not least i really wonder why lots of ppl cry that assasins are op, just because SOME of them are very succesful, imo there is just 1 really good inf in albion and 2 good ns in hibernia (sbs are rare so i cant say anything about them) and what about all the rest of them ?? they dont kill easily, they dont spam killmsgs and when the good players would stop playing their stealthers none would ever say they re op, thats what i think !

Also, people have to realize there's supposed to be like a foodchain, or more like a food-circle. Stealthers kill casters, casters kill tanks/support, tanks kill stealthers and other tanks and supports. Every class has an advantage over at least one other class.

after rebalancing pa/bs we can talk about not op stealthers at stealthers are really .. With my merc i was onehitted one time by sb .. 1k dmg pa 500 crit + dot and proc .. thats not op ? omg

And i get now pa`s for about 700dmg with chain armor tank, sometimes with af charge and about 7xx af .. thats not op?

The poisons are op in 1on1 ok but they are working like they should, PA and BS definitely not.

Then some Tests about the Evade rate should be tested, atm u evade nearly all if u just detaunt one time.. Afaik Defense Bonus should just improve the enemies miss rate and the To hit bonus should Improve the hit rate... not the defense of the enemy...

Firstly i want to coment the idea of moc3 draining casters. Maybe it works on live but on uthgard for sure not. Unbuffed caster has ~1000-1100 hp. Comparing it to 600-700dmg pa(+many crits) +110 dmg viper + 2nd chain hit+ 2nd dot tick you've got maximal one cast to do something. Additionally you will be diseased so drain effectivity is lowered. But it's connected with bugged pa/bs dmg so nvm:D

Another thing as Malle said is infi/sb evade chance (dunno how it look with ns). My vw with str/con pot buff has 1700+ weaponskill and i use d/q debuff almost every stealther fight. Even though i'm hardly able to hit twice in a row.
At the same time infi hits me incessantly getting evaded every ~4-5 hit and that's mostly 2nd hand. Main hand evade is like once per fight. I know he has advanced evade but concidering the fact that we were both using d/q charge + my d/q debuff and higher weapskill it looks quite suprisingly.

That's why i ask if anyone can check infis/sbs evade chance unbuffed, buffed and with aug qui ra (this is the most suspicious thing i think)

Greets
Cespx

I think lifebane should have a proper immunity and not just refresh it.....

So maybe my purge will be usefull.

Drazahr kills me because of lifebane/viper 2

Lueck kills me because of purge/lifebane/always PAs me unlike Drazahr :)

Also, people have to realize there's supposed to be like a foodchain, or more like a food-circle. Stealthers kill casters, casters kill tanks/support, tanks kill stealthers and other tanks and supports. Every class has an advantage over at least one other class.

and what kills skalds?

guess theer at the top:))

if they cant kill em they can run faster..


sorry offtopic, but i cuold not resist..

Just to throw something in ... stone, paper, scissors - assasin classes were
created to kill cloth-wearing classes while assasin classes were not created
to kill fulltanks/offensive tanks. cloth classes on the other hand were created
to deal a big bunch of dmg in a short time in order to for example kill full
tanks which have got pretty good melee defense, but are still vulnerable
to magical attacks (except bolts).

The PA/BSI&II dmg is by now far too high versus fulltanks!

@cespx i just tested now... my wapon skill is 1350 so i am not sure that the 350 will make a high difference that make you should hit everytime...


debuff dex/quick: if you talk about charge.. i think it's a bit buggy, i tested really quickly and the debuff value depend of the dex/quick of your enemy or smthg like that and anyway is low.


@malle fixing PA/BS won't help you. at the moment it's very difficult to place a PA. if you can do it, that's just luck or that your enemy is not moving or snared or smthg like that...it's the reason why i respeced viper, you can't win a fight with 1 or 2 PA... often you just pop close to your oponent and you got the message " your target is to far away" and so without viper you are dead.

few times ago you needed skills to play stealthers, PA snare and so on where usefull... now you just have to fight fight fight and kill low enemies or being buffboted ( lueckeen if you read me )

now it's hard to kill tank, even a champion would kill me. few times ago when i saw a hero i just imagined the free RPs ... now that's really different.

yeah i think too that you evade more if you detaunt, i don't know if that's a bug...

i agree that stealther can or could kill quite everything in solo... but you need that the enemy don't know that you are there, he must be solo, he has to pass close to you...etc.

that's lot of things that must be together to be able to kill... as a non stealther you see only the "omg he killed me one more time" but maybe you avoid the death 3 others times.

sure there are classes/players that are easy to kill and you even not need to get PA to kill them, you just destealth, run and kill but there are classes/players that can't be killed. i think the onlyones that bring problems are skalds, some warden and some valewalkers. but that's the chance of the stealth... you choose your oponents and kill only the ones you can kill or have a chance to kill. and sure when you have in front of you some Alb free RPers it's easy to get lot of kills

AGREE with pa on hard to PA.

compared to paed on live. this servor seems to have this 1 second lag.

for me it makes PA very hard. nearly impossble.

many time i do a BS cuase i risk the PA to fail due the the 1 second lag.

on live the PA seemed instant, no 1 second lag. hence easy to do.

now you just have to fight fight fight and kill low enemies or being buffboted ( lueckeen if you read me

rofl, just cause you cant kill me doesnt mean im buffed !
i am NEVER buffed and even drop buffs i get from buffclasses passing by.
so dont talk about things you dont know (or ask eshhee how to play a good inf^^)

but as far as pa/bs is concerned your absolutely right, due to lags its always risky and often when you manage to get a pa in, the cd wont be performed without any reason or message....