Cantara..
Dont know what to say at all^^

We played alot together and you know that i dont have big fun doing instantkills. If you would know me better you would know i am more an underdog. I like challenges. So dont tell me about it.. ok?

It sounds more like: Some progamers need easy frags in emain for me
As you said the whole drama in Braemar is about the great amount of Twinks there. So you have to admit great amount of RPs as well. And actually its for me the greatest fun to frag those. I know a certain SB named Yilaya, cant wait to miss his PA . A fully equiped SB that likes to pop easy casters and vanish as soon as the slightest trouble is incoming ^_^

Gap between skilled/equiped players in Braemar is much smaller than in emain. You have to read the post again maybe?
Its a chain of arguements.. quoting a part might not make much sense at all.

Its not about coding at all. I wanted to underline there are changes in server-policies. And this changes are an indicator for special a faction gaining power. I can only totally agree with Shyraba ( /hug ).

You like to talk about Chances? Chances to meet to so called progamers?
Those that have the largest amount of Time? Well Cantara can you tell me how many level 50 Twinks they have ( even you) ? They have time -.-, thats why they want changes in emain...
As GM I would exspect a more objectiv point of view - tough I know you are part of the faction mentioned above.

Good point TS. Thats correct it's part of the learning process.

What about the "People like me make starters have /xp off with 30" ?
This is totally out of nothing. You cant even drop one name of a beginner that did ./xp off with 30. They all want to advance. The usual phenomena is they test certain classes, and finally choosing the a suiting class they advance to 50. Maybe you should have some talk with real beginners?
Cant remember to met you in DoM ? But i am a part of DoA...

I don't understand why there is further need to discuss. Blue already stated in
german forums that Braemar is not meant to be a lvl50twink battleground, but
a battleground for newbies to start RvR.

Your discussing in an interesting, manipulative and implying way Nestral. You
know the servers policy - no easy mode, no instant stuff. If you can not live
with this policy you should eventually choose another server. Excuse me for
my straight and maybe grumpy answer, but I absolutely can not understand
a player willing to sacrifice a freeshard to keep his private funhouse!
Of course now you will twist my words and ask me if it is ok to sacrifice lvl30
players of Braemar, but there is a big difference! This game is meant to be
played until lvl50 including lvl50 endgame RvR.

Take a look onto your own signature. You have got 4 lvl50 chars. A supporter,
a stealther, a dmg-dealer and something to solo and you want to tell me
that there is no way for you to have fun in Emain? Frankly, your a liar!

With regards
Sethor

Sethor wrote:Your discussing in an interesting, manipulative and implying way Nestral.

The pot calling the kettle black? ^^

Sethor wrote:(...) I absolutely can not understand
a player willing to sacrifice a freeshard to keep his private funhouse!

I have read that interesting, manipulative and implying statement from you before. Sacrifice a freeshard for his private funhouse?

Oh right. This server will all of a sudden disintegrate if your playstyle is not supported right now. By everyone else.

Why should players that are not interested playing in Emain all of a sudden do so, just because someone took the fun on this server from them by limiting their choices to a degree they do not want to accept? This is not really a mechanism that is self-explanatory to me. Might be that I am just too stupid... please explain.

Did we already reached the point, where no solid arguements are left?

Nice you mentioned Funhouse. A house usually has rooms. One of it is Braemar. Sure I had alot Fun in emain, but if you read my post again..
I cleary stated its to much time comsuming - at the momemt atleast.

But when i mentioned fun, it was about beginners. I am not a Beginner, and I did spent alot time into Uthgard. Again read my post there is a chain of arguements, you'll sure find the part:

Beginners dont have fun in Braemar because of Twinks. You want em to have all the fun getting 50 beeing totally RvRed while challenging other beginners?
Once those beginners meet real enemies their fun will start. That will be totally different "pwnage" as they get it now from twinks in Braemar Thats what I call fun-gain. Maybe we should stay little closer in contact with those beginners before we talk about their fun


You are right Blue did stated it clearly. Advancement does always comes along with changes. But not all are good?
Blue is a busy man and blue doesnt play on uthgard. I appriciate his work. But maybe he got the wrong feedback (Lobbiest). This post should just give him an overview about the Pros/Cons and the distribution among the community. Thats why i mad a poll. And till now, this is all about argueing. So keep up posting as long as you have some.

Greetz
Nes

PS: ./hug shy again^^

Sest, the problem is that Braemar battleground rvr is an artificial phenomenon.
Only because on Uthgard some players have fun in a lvl30 battleground does
not mean that this has to be the final endgame rvr. Otherwise you could just
cap the maximum level to 30 RR2.

Of course this server will not disintegrate all of a sudden, but ny now there
are first signs of players being bored and switching to alternative servers.
We are talking about some high RR players who are needed to battle in Emain
and who are usually the reason for success in big events like the upcoming
AerusCity event.

At first this artificial phenomenon has to be understood, meaning that players
like Nestral and you have to accept that the meant endgame is lvl50rvr
and not lvl30. Currently you are hiding in a niche which usually does not
exist. I can live with it, but I ask you to accept the limitation of a characters
time to stay in Braemar (lvl30 RR2).
You are talking about fun...go to Emain and take all the other
realms Braemar twinks with you and there you have got your fun.
It is not my playstyle, it is THE playstyle the original creator of DAoC supposed it to be!

With regards
Sethor

I voted A.

I like BG kind of play: SIEGE. I see little fun on running around on open field. I JUST PREFERE SIEGE and emain is open field. It is my choice, siege, no matter who is my adversary, twink or new guy.

It is not fair to restrict my logging to Wilton or Braemar.

It does not mean I will never play in emain.

-> I have not read all the posts above YET, but I will soon. I just know that there is nothing that someone can say that will make me like open field more than siege.

Sethor wrote:Sest, the problem is that Braemar battleground rvr is an artificial phenomenon.
Only because on Uthgard some players have fun in a lvl30 battleground does
not mean that this has to be the final endgame rvr. Otherwise you could just
cap the maximum level to 30 RR2.

Ok, I see the point there. If in my posts something came across as a try to force anyone to play in MY way and not yours, I apologize. I will not tell anyone how to have fun here.

I agree, Braemar is in no way the final endgame rvr.

Sethor wrote:Of course this server will not disintegrate all of a sudden, but ny now there
are first signs of players being bored and switching to alternative servers.
We are talking about some high RR players who are needed to battle in Emain
and who are usually the reason for success in big events like the upcoming
AerusCity event.

I cannot follow. What are those players needed for?
Success in Events is nice and dandy, battling the other realms as well. And I miss some oldschool players here dearly as well(Awdlin comes to mind). But needed? Why? There were always players switching to Purga, I myself have some at least mid RR toons there as well. I might do that now and then if and when it is up again. So what?

Dont get me wrong, I am Midgard with all my heart, but the success in events and the retention of high RR players is not really a factor for anyone elses fun but for those players themselves. Right?

Sethor wrote:At first this artificial phenomenon has to be understood, meaning that players
like Nestral and you have to accept that the meant endgame is lvl50rvr
and not lvl30. You are talking about fun...go to Emain and take all the other
realms Braemar twinks with you and there you have got your fun.
It is not my playstyle, it is THE playstyle the original creator of DAoC supposed!

And this is the point where you mix up a statement with an argument in my opinion.

That the highest possible level is 50 (and therefore by definition the ENDgame rvr is level 50) does not mean that your playstyle was a) anticipated and b) supposed by the original creators of DAoC. It is the playstyle that evolved on live servers and got dominant there.

Supposed was a game that keeps players playing it and therefore continue paying for it. Taking fun away just to force people to level 50 rvr zones? I dont think so.

In no way I agree to the automatism that you describe when you speak about having fun in Emain, once I take all twinks (and I understood - not just mine) to Emain.

I am in fact working towards Emain with most of my toons, but still your statement is not valid IMO.

With regards as well
Shy

Sethor wrote:I don't understand why there is further need to discuss. Blue already stated in
german forums that Braemar is not meant to be a lvl50twink battleground, but
a battleground for newbies to start RvR.

excuse me, not all on uth are germans who read german forum

Sest, of course Mythic supposed lvl50 RvR to be the endgame content. In the
beginning of DAoC, battlegrounds did not exist! Later on, several battlegrounds
had been implemented to enable players to reach a decent realm rank in
fights against players of similar level in order to make the players being able
to compete against senior-high-RR players.
If Mythic wanted lvl30players to be the main customers they wouldn't have
made a ToA/DR/Catacombs/... addon in which you have to be lvl50!

...What are those players needed for?...

Do you want me to flip around that questionfitting my purpose?


@Shien: Blue stated in german forums that Braemar isn't supposed to be a
twinking ground for lvl50players. This is the reason for the last implemented
feature of being booted out of Braemar after you have reached 2l0 and what
is the reason for a lot of tears ^^

I totally don't agree because:

1- Exping to lv 50 is BORING, harder then live exp!!!!! And it needs too much time. I'm tryng to reach 50 with a character, but when I can't exp more I try to search a bit of rvr in bgs.

2- If you allow only starter to stay in bg, you just need to do another account. Thus, instead of having brae char, wilton char and thid char, you will have brae account, wilt account, thid account, and for what I know many accounts are always many used memory.

3- With this system, if I have a lv 41 character, and most of my realm mates got lv 40- char, I would be alone vs other enemy.

4- I found bgs very funny here, this system will empty the bgs.

Only way with I could accept it, it's to give a very good exp bonus for your first character, so you can reach lv 50 without being mad. I don't talk about a 50-100% exp, but at least x3 or x4.

Exp bonus x3 x4 = 300-400%
Btw no one said that exping is easy and you honestly shouldn't compare the
time needed to reach 50 on Uthgard by the time you need on live. Of course
by now you are faster on live due to several mini-features enabling you to
level up in less than a week or if done in a pushing group in less than 10hours.
My very first lvl50char on liveservers needed around 6months to reach lvl50
and to be honest...on Uthgard you are able to level up to 50 in around a week!

You can still stay for a more or less long time in battlegrounds. You are just
no longer able to keep a char forever in there.

Only way with I could accept...

Well, you have to because it is already implemented ^^

We dont have to talk about Live. Liveserver was not planed for just 200 people - you did remind us about that some posts ago?
(And I am a wrong or are the addons not basically level 50 PvM contents?)

Just let me remind: This topic isnt basically about PvM.

I might be wrong but it seems like there is no overwhelming majority for restricting BG? Cant be denied.

I just wonder how many are neccesary. You know nowadays we have a system it's called democracy. I remember when Presto started here. The feedback-Forum was created. Before it was just PM / IRC. Funny if you check IRC there are always the same People. This aint the usual players this are a)basically german b) most-online-players-with-highRR and of course c) the staff.
Some of those people are the main-reason why there is a)Jail b)closed Thread because of Flame. This is a matter of facts (Just compare yourself). So IRC was before and still is a great oppertunity to give feedback. But question should be.. how serious can you take it ? Aint it just a minority-feedback? Are they the right people?

I just hope we take this thread as big chance to get some more representative* Feedback. Dont just read, but take part on it. If you dont have a Forum-acc by now. Dont be to lazy to create one. Its done in a few sec.


Greetz
Nes

Excuse me, but if you believe Presto to act democratic on the will of the
"citizens", we already had /level20 commands and exp boni around 200%
He is just following the Uthgard policy - no easy mode, pre-ToA live like
and this way offers as endgame lvl50 RvR and not lvl30 twinkage!

Essentially what Sethor says is true. He have some options what to do and what not. In those cases we use poll and try to determine the best outcome in the opnion of all players. Most matters that are deceided on the administration level however are about policy. The "Capkiller" effect in the battlegrounds is a policy descision. We have more active BG Chars than active RvR chars, also most players tend to leave uthgard after level 30 is reached (this was measured per account not per character)

The problem is in fact, that some people destroy the purpose of BG's. The BG's are not for top equipped newbie gankers but for player that want to get a taste of what RvR is like while leveling. Also it is something different that you can do sometime.. but it is not meant to be the place where a characters destiny is fulfilled.

There is absolutly no doubt that we will continue with this policy... no matter the outcome of this poll.

hmmm how about lowering the cap RR at the bgs to an absolute minimum?
like :

1L5 braemar
2l0 wilton
3l0 thidranki

maybe even lower . would fix some "i wanna bg all day" attitude. i like that auto lvl up idea in exchange for hitting the cap.