Spear positionals all have a bleeding follow up that will kill snares. The lvl6 back snare is not exactly good damage. I don't think Spear is in a good place concerning the styles but 2H thrust damage is nice vs chain. I like LW better.

Well, if you cant read your styles tooltips, you preddy much deserve to fail.

I tested both, and I found it easier to annoy the crap out of enemys offtanks. Which is your primary job. You cant compete dmg wise against minds due to celerity. So dont try it and play it smart.

Kaziera wrote:Well, if you cant read your styles tooltips, you preddy much deserve to fail.

Care to clarify?

Shinyuka wrote:

Falken wrote:What spec do you plan to play hero as? Weapon swapping in CS from LW sounds like a pain in the arse, so I was going to do 50 LW / 10 blades / 42 shield/ rest parry.

BLAH BLAH BLAH

TL;DR

LW+6 spear is probably the best spec, but if really dont want to switch, go spear!

lol... just cause its a pain in the ass doesn't mean I wouldn't do it if thats the best way, I was shield swapping on my merc/BM to slam, its a pain the ass but its just what you do!

Going 50 CS to spam a level 6 skill doesn't seem very point efficient to me (there are 0 other styles I would use), I realize my primary role is to peel but there will be a point where I am assisting on a target and damage will matter and 50 LW > 50 CS in that regard. Thank you for your feedback/comments no matter how condescending and holier than though they sound.

Be sure it wasnt meant condescending. I was trying to make my point and showing you the thoughts behind it, so that evry possible reader could follow them.

Falken wrote:Going 50 CS to spam a level 6 skill doesn't seem very point efficient to me (there are 0 other styles I would use), I realize my primary role is to peel but there will be a point where I am assisting on a target and damage will matter and 50 LW > 50 CS in that regard.

on what numbers do you base that? lets put slash vs thrust dmg aside for a moment, and just look at the styles.. since i dont trust growth rate numbers on the internet when it comes to uthgard, it took me 10 minutes to create a hero and do some testing myself.

i specced 50 LW and 50 CS and compared the max dmg (by hitting level 5 dolls) of anytimer, sidestyle and backstyle. the weapons i used (for dia seals) are almost identical - only the spear is .1 slower, so we have to consider that when looking at the results.

note: you may get different results if you dont use a Firby with 15 str base stats, +75 str/qui through items, and +5 LW/CS, but the relativ difference should stay the same

anytimer - CS: 518, LW: 503

sidestyle - CS: 563, LW: 515

backstyle - CS : 526, LW: 574


looking at these numbers confirms that annihilation is indeed a mighty style, with a nice growth rate. besides that, CS might even be a little superior (especially since i used taunts for the anytimer, due to endu cost.. if you have plenty as a CS user, you could switch to "Eagly Talon", which did 533 in my tests).

so for me it turns out like this:

CS

Pros:
- easily applied backsnare, which can be spammed for additional dmg
- better control over when to stun (if you want to save the stun for a certain moment, you cant use anni and are forced to use the taunt instead - dmg listed above)
- slower possible weapons (needs to be confirmed.. but as far as i get it, the barbed spear has a 5.7 delay, whereas the slowest craftable 2h sword, exceptional great sword, has 5.5)
- thrust dmg has a bonus against Warriors, Skalds, Healer, Shaman, Mercs, Clerics, Minstrel (which is a long list, but most of them arent your high priority targets)

Cons:
- low level backstyle
- lv50 style applies bleeding, so can only be used in certain situations
- thrust dmg has a malus against Svg, Zerk, Arms (which u will face quite often as a def tank)


LW

Pros:
- very strong backstyle (with a stun that can save u the extra slam in certain situations) and a very high too hit bonus, especially nice against svgs
- possible to switch between crush and slash
- slash dmg has a bonus against Svg, Zerk
- crush dmg has a bonus against Arms
- frontal snare has a 19 sec duration

Cons:
- no backsnare.. you either have to use front snare or switch to CS (or side from blades, ofc)
- overall dmg very dependend on annihilation, other styles relatively weak
- faster crafted weapons compared to CS



so the way i see it, when it comes to assisting on a target, CS isnt neccessarily inferior to LW. it heavily depends on what you are hitting. but both spec lines are viable, and it is up to the player what to choose in the end. (wow, what a unique and totally unexpected result )

Maybe I will recreate your test with my 38 spear 50 LW spec and check the numbers. I want the best of both.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

would be sweet

Speaking of testing, I tested out 50 LW vs 50 CS (with druid buffs) on the level 50 doll. Was purely testing out damage to see how significant it was on the back style: http://imgur.com/a/2WdK2

Firb +10 str/10dex/10quick/RR5 with full red buffs using the DF diamond CS and Crush LW

Which just confirms the obvious that LW is better for back style, but valid points are made above. I really don't see myself spamming anytimers, it is a bit lazy and should always be working for positionals (not LW side positional due to bleed). Which is why I concluded my statements in previous posts, that LW>CS in terms of damage. Blades side snare + slam for peeling, may go 6 CS as a just incase I find myself struggling to land side snares to accomplish my goal within the group.

It is a personal choice, thanks Shinkyuka for taking the time to lay it all out for people to make an educated decision.

Wow but that's over all quite ****** damage. How much AF does the dummy have? Do you have max `STR from gear?

dabri0n wrote:Wow but that's over all quite ****** damage. How much AF does the dummy have? Do you have max `STR from gear?

The level 50 dummy is orange con to my 50, I was max str from items and I had red base str and str/con, so basically max str you can have since I was firb, the dummy also has no resists.

Spec: 50 LW, 38 Celtic Spear, 42 Shield, 10 Blades.
Firb +10 strength +15 dex starting stats. 75/75 on strength and quickness from items. RR5.


anytimer - CS: 486, LW: 536

sidestyle - CS: - , LW: 550

backstyle - CS : 493, LW: 619

Eagle Talon - 499

Not sure how your LW dmg was lower than mine. Even with your +15 strength starting stats.

Also FYI - http://i.imgur.com/NpLGpBd.png

No buffs, same spec.

Hm I wasn't rr5, but since the weapons aren't 16.5 dps anyways, it shouldn't make a difference

Ps: we could test that tomorrow, if you like

I do hope you gents are taking into account weapon speed. If you have a 16.5 dps 5.7 vs a 16.5 dps 5.4 --- you will yield different results.