Celteen wrote:DAoC is no casual friendly game and never will be, the casuals will leave RvR after the first hype on any server.
The whole game favours 8vs8 grps, after three month there will be 8vs8 only just like on Uthgard v1 and on Origins.

This result is true only on free shard. On live, there was zerg all the time, even with "new" BG and xp/rp off.

HulkGris wrote:

Celteen wrote:DAoC is no casual friendly game and never will be, the casuals will leave RvR after the first hype on any server.
The whole game favours 8vs8 grps, after three month there will be 8vs8 only just like on Uthgard v1 and on Origins.

This result is true only on free shard. On live, there was zerg all the time, even with "new" BG and xp/rp off.

Well even on FS sometimes, about 80 mids / 80 hibs / 60-70 albs tonight on Genesis 3 different relic raid in the same evening/night, and like 50% of those (in my opinion) neither know what their classes can do.. so yes much casual friendly in this case

I agree somewhat ... but daoc's original vision, which includes the projected programming vision of such an endeavor... world/realm(s) sizes, run times, portal pad waiting times, encounters etc.. to be along the lines of 100vs100vs100 rvr battle game while the mythic servers were still packed with pve leveling players lvling up and all the bg's were 50% or higher in capacity..

well I do not believe mark jacobs hit the projected "population" nail-on-the-head back in the day with his "model/proposal" especially considering they had such limited $$$$ for their rollout and its advertisement/marketing and distribution constraints. Lets face it , mythic and abandon did indeed have a game of massive proportions but sold about 30-50% ( and that is being very optimistic, more like 20%).. of subs to run the game and it dynamics correctly. This didnt happen..... as intended. Add to that, they had too many servers breaking too many people up into small groups playing seperately,,....then add to that clans and guilds which broke each server up into even smaller segments that further placated to seperating everyone with alliances.....yes ..alliances did/does seperate people wiithin the same realm......yippie! And I played o merlin...very high populace.

Kind of ashame....The ONLY true large scale warfare game that exists online, to date, with time under its belt, is sadly the game that didnt get the $$$$/marketing/& hooplah that several other games got and has been stuck , since 2003/2005(bc it was fun for the first few years in its original concept and it all being new) , ..but since that early time we end up getting stuck in a great game with players "adapting" to the way they wish to play vs. How a game is designed.

There were people coming from new and differing worlds of gaming back then.... there was nothing new out then.... either you played meridian59/ultima/eq...or.... leisure suit larry/myst......or .... unreal tourney/tribes/rogue spear.. or like me , all of thwm


there were ALOT of gamers out there but the unreal fps players seemed to gravitate towards playing stealthers, archers, etc...... the laid back myst point n click players liked healers and casters...and most of the eq/rpg players liked pallys, friars(monks) ETC...

I know I am soumding like I am generalizing all players into very narrow categories.... but this was true for the most part in 1999-2003.

I also understand how uthgard (as mythic/ea should have done but wouldnt bc more time = more $$$)...how uthgard got rid of NF.....it was a timesink...huge useless timesink. It was a nice evolving vision for the early developers to look forward to but mythic never had the numbers on any one server, back in the day to justify releasing marks "vision".

So anyway.... given a game it is earliest conception that DEMANDS a server running people into each other quite often with spells and arrows flying in all directions and fun chaotic cacophony instead of min/maxing every counter attack and skill as if it was a build out of guildwars , will be refreshing.

I hope to God, Odin and that "other" treehugger god, that the stealther chokepoint and 8v8 wars are over and real gaming is back again where you die to an arrow to the back of the head for no reason or your group winds the middle of crossfire from 4 cats!

Uthgard staff seems to have that in mind and understands you can not have 20 players in rvr and 50 in bgs and 300 in pve in a largescale warfare designed game.

kudos uth staff!

we await impatiently

Keep /xp off and take out /rp off, last thing we want is Bgard..

I don't see why rp off would be excluded, well I do but I don't understand. You can't force people to do what you want them to, they will either quit or reroll to go back to the bg. A lot of people come to old school freeshards for the nostalgia, but they are not teenagers with 10 hours a day to play anymore. They level slowly and they would gain RR slowly because they don't have the time to dedicate. Battlegrounds are perfect for these players. There are also those who play battlegrounds just for fun since that is what is important. But the minority, the elitists, cry when there is no one to roll even though they are a big part of why there is no one.

But Uthgard will probably cater to the elitists even though they could not keep Uthgard alive.

Did not play on Uthgard 1.0 that much, but I'm very hyped to play after server relaunch.

But: No /xp off and /rp off makes me a bit sad actually... on live servers , I enjoyed playing in the BGs very much! I had almost every class in Thidranki and quite a few in Molvik and enjoyed the diversity and not being "forced" the play the same class every day.

Nowadays, my free time is getting lesser and lesser... I expect that it will take me about 3 month to xp my first char to level 50. I'm not interested in "pro 8vs8" type of gaming (well... I would love to, but with job, family, little child it's just not possible). I see it coming that I'll try soloing in OF a bit and then logg off frustrated after some days or weeks and say good bye to DAoC, this time for the very last time.

I think the decision to exclude /xp off and /rp off is very bad. The Uthgard community does not exist out of 8vs8 pros only... there are many casual gamers (like me) that want to be able to create and xp their characters without that huge time investment and just have some fun doing RVR in the BGs. I understand the idea to "bring" casuals to to the 50 RvR zones to increase the population there, but a casual player will stay a casual player... the pros won't play *with* casuals, casuals will be force to play *against* the pros.

Onze wrote:Did not play on Uthgard 1.0 that much, but I'm very hyped to play after server relaunch.

But: No /xp off and /rp off makes me a bit sad actually... on live servers , I enjoyed playing in the BGs very much! I had almost every class in Thidranki and quite a few in Molvik and enjoyed the diversity and not being "forced" the play the same class every day.

Nowadays, my free time is getting lesser and lesser... I expect that it will take me about 3 month to xp my first char to level 50. I'm not interested in "pro 8vs8" type of gaming (well... I would love to, but with job, family, little child it's just not possible). I see it coming that I'll try soloing in OF a bit and then logg off frustrated after some days or weeks and say good bye to DAoC, this time for the very last time.

I think the decision to exclude /xp off and /rp off is very bad. The Uthgard community does not exist out of 8vs8 pros only... there are many casual gamers (like me) that want to be able to create and xp their characters without that huge time investment and just have some fun doing RVR in the BGs. I understand the idea to "bring" casuals to to the 50 RvR zones to increase the population there, but a casual player will stay a casual player... the pros won't play *with* casuals, casuals will be force to play *against* the pros.

Yes lets make it possible to rvr at 231321 different lvls and 321321321 different places.. bgs are for getting some rps before you hit out in big boy rvr.. why the highest bg back in the days went to lvl 35... this is like the 10000 time some1 qq's about this... oh god ._.

I would love to see /xp off back though, for more of mr plow

(Basically /xp off to help a groupmate catch up, by preventing him from having xp penalty.)

Oswaldo wrote:

Onze wrote:Did not play on Uthgard 1.0 that much, but I'm very hyped to play after server relaunch.

But: No /xp off and /rp off makes me a bit sad actually... on live servers , I enjoyed playing in the BGs very much! I had almost every class in Thidranki and quite a few in Molvik and enjoyed the diversity and not being "forced" the play the same class every day.

Nowadays, my free time is getting lesser and lesser... I expect that it will take me about 3 month to xp my first char to level 50. I'm not interested in "pro 8vs8" type of gaming (well... I would love to, but with job, family, little child it's just not possible). I see it coming that I'll try soloing in OF a bit and then logg off frustrated after some days or weeks and say good bye to DAoC, this time for the very last time.

I think the decision to exclude /xp off and /rp off is very bad. The Uthgard community does not exist out of 8vs8 pros only... there are many casual gamers (like me) that want to be able to create and xp their characters without that huge time investment and just have some fun doing RVR in the BGs. I understand the idea to "bring" casuals to to the 50 RvR zones to increase the population there, but a casual player will stay a casual player... the pros won't play *with* casuals, casuals will be force to play *against* the pros.

Yes lets make it possible to rvr at 231321 different lvls and 321321321 different places.. bgs are for getting some rps before you hit out in big boy rvr.. why the highest bg back in the days went to lvl 35... this is like the 10000 time some1 qq's about this... oh god ._.

I understand your argument, but I think it would not change the situation much. There are many players that love DAoC since the beginning, but got older and have more responsibilities than 10 years ago (job, family, ...). Those will either want to stay in the BGs where the time investment (reach lvl 50, attend raids, equip you character) is much lower and where they are not "forced" into elitist 8vs8, or they won't play at all.

... but maybe you're right, maybe I should qq and stay away from Uthgard

Onze wrote:

Oswaldo wrote:

Onze wrote:Did not play on Uthgard 1.0 that much, but I'm very hyped to play after server relaunch.

But: No /xp off and /rp off makes me a bit sad actually... on live servers , I enjoyed playing in the BGs very much! I had almost every class in Thidranki and quite a few in Molvik and enjoyed the diversity and not being "forced" the play the same class every day.

Nowadays, my free time is getting lesser and lesser... I expect that it will take me about 3 month to xp my first char to level 50. I'm not interested in "pro 8vs8" type of gaming (well... I would love to, but with job, family, little child it's just not possible). I see it coming that I'll try soloing in OF a bit and then logg off frustrated after some days or weeks and say good bye to DAoC, this time for the very last time.

I think the decision to exclude /xp off and /rp off is very bad. The Uthgard community does not exist out of 8vs8 pros only... there are many casual gamers (like me) that want to be able to create and xp their characters without that huge time investment and just have some fun doing RVR in the BGs. I understand the idea to "bring" casuals to to the 50 RvR zones to increase the population there, but a casual player will stay a casual player... the pros won't play *with* casuals, casuals will be force to play *against* the pros.

Yes lets make it possible to rvr at 231321 different lvls and 321321321 different places.. bgs are for getting some rps before you hit out in big boy rvr.. why the highest bg back in the days went to lvl 35... this is like the 10000 time some1 qq's about this... oh god ._.

I understand your argument, but I think it would not change the situation much. There are many players that love DAoC since the beginning, but got older and have more responsibilities than 10 years ago (job, family, ...). Those will either want to stay in the BGs where the time investment (reach lvl 50, attend raids, equip you character) is much lower and where they are not "forced" into elitist 8vs8, or they won't play at all.

... but maybe you're right, maybe I should qq and stay away from Uthgard

Splitting up a freeshard with the alrdy low amount of people there are on these servers will kill them.. better to have everyone in the same rvr place... yes i dont have the time i did either, but i would still prefer, when my char is rdy for rvr, that its possible for me to find some fights, and it wont be a ghostland because people are screwing around in bgs because they cant "bother" about real rvr...

yes i miss mr plow!

I've not posted here in a while and this is a really old topic, but putting everyone into one RVR zone will not have the desired effect.

The problem will be that the lowbies, casuals and less organised sheep will just be food for the set group wolves. This is the expected behaviour for DAoC which we all accept, but eventually the sheep will get fed up with being eaten and just quit. Once all the sheep have gone, there will just the the uth1 8v8 group left complaining that there are no more semi-defenceless sheep left to farm.

However, allowing newbs access to a more sheep friendly environment keeps their interest up and stops them from logging.

Plus lets not forget that the most vocal people on this forum are the RVR wolves. Casual sheep do not bother posting so don't really get an opinion and if they do venture an opinion it gets ignored because their RR isn't high enough.

Plus i have no idea why i mention sheep so much

Isn't this as suggested by Woody a community problem though?

If there is leaders in each realm organizing daily zergs, casuals will always have somewhere to RvR.

The problem is rather the lack of community leaders than forcing casuals into the RvR zone. Or am I missing something?

borog wrote:the sheep will get fed up with being eaten.

borog wrote:Plus i have no idea why i mention sheep so much

Great post, plus your wolf avatar makes it perfect

its true that great leaders can make a difference, however finding them and a large enough group of like minded people can be an issue.

Not everyone wants to play the same and funnelling everyone into the same mindset will just cause those who don't think the same to say "meh, not my idea of fun so i'll go elsewhere".

a curse on diversity and everything they stand for!

I just know you can ´t force players to play some way they don ´t want to, they would leave when they don ´t have fun while playing. So some things should be considered carefully by staff, because we need every kind of players for the shard, farmers, economists, elitists, casuals, soloers etc. so game settings that affect escpecially rvr decissions, should always be priorized and maybe having a chance of custom solution if necessary.

I don´t believe in the big bang theory with the holy leaders of each realms that lead the server to glory, that did not work well at Uthgard 1.0 so why should it work conctantly at Uth 2.0? Though, it may be an improvement when you ´ve some ppl who can lead a crowd but it would not compensate missing basic content for long. Daoc has always been a game with some choices that made it interesting for many kind of players, so, to get back to topic , /rp off , exp/off and guard tasks would be nice options to get more players.