PetClear is everyone's job!

Snare, pft. That is part of the interrupting process (Interrupt a Caster, or "Interrupt" the tank with Snare). I was being general.

Of course I won't deny what you mentioned is true, but Cure Disease was a high priority as a Warden.

I surely requires more coordination between the bard and the druids now. On Albion as cleric you usually don't have anyone else for that job so you do that anyways, but it was always easier to do that on Alb than it was on Hib for some reason.

[R]Bloodwyne wrote:

_Oglop_ wrote:Look at it this way,

You have (had) 3 things to do on a Warden during a fight:

- Cure
- Heal
- Interrupt

wrong

- cure
- heal
- snare (most important job imo after snarefix)
- interrupt
- theu-petclear

u are always busy as warden even without cure, always something to do

wrong

- cure + heal (u nearly always need to cure first vs Mids)
- snare
- interrupt - with detnerf it will end in cc very fast
- theu-petclear every Druid or Caster should outdamage a standard 10 Blades spec Warden on Theurg pets with Staff since the armor resist change on Theurg pets a few weeks/month ago

Lets face it like it is - Detnerf alone made every Hibhybrid far less viable due to the fact Hibs have only 1 demezzer without quickcast or mezz dampening shield - the only hope is the right 1.69 setting with 2 group purge in the Hibgroup.
And a Hybrid who was mainly rupter and healer isnt viable anymore if you cut him both. Thats not meant as QQ, im just saying under the current setting Warden is far less useful as a Mentalist or second Bard for example, even another eld or BM will now provide more to the group as a Warden could when you are facing decent enemys.

and to fix the initial post:

If you're a solo or pve player...keep going.

I would not recommend a Warden for this.
Solo sux as visible in general and there are far more viable solo classes on Hib.
In PvE no one wants you in endgame. Ok, if you have Aog3 u will be Aog bot for a Dragon raid maybe, but the standard 6 men DF or whatever raidgroups run without warden imho and rather pick a second animist.

epo wrote:I surely requires more coordination between the bard and the druids now. On Albion as cleric you usually don't have anyone else for that job so you do that anyways, but it was always easier to do that on Alb than it was on Hib for some reason.

let me introduce : The Reason

Hmm...now that you mention it... ^_^

epo wrote:I surely requires more coordination between the bard and the druids now. On Albion as cleric you usually don't have anyone else for that job so you do that anyways, but it was always easier to do that on Alb than it was on Hib for some reason.

Oh come on, please use your brain first before trying to argue with invalid arguements.
Besides the fact, that alb mainhealers have more spare time then mainhealers on other realms (sorc+theurg have to be rupted first, cleric is no threat) - any mainhealer class will spreadheal if he needs to heal and the target is diseased, it makes no sense to cure disease, so the warden can start healing if the target needs heals - has always been like that, you just cure it if you have spare time and you dont have to heal immidiately as mainhealer. And especially as alb player you should know better, Healwarden is less useful now as a Friar would be, because Friar still has cure disease - think about it.

so the fact that druid with staff makes more dmg on theu pets than warden means u wont help clearing them in times? i mean there can be more than 1 pet on certain targets and i dont think i need to tell u that.

i dont say wardens viability hasnt decreased but its not as bad as some people claim it to be. warden still has room in certain setups but some people are to stuck on their theories.

[R]Bloodwyne wrote:so the fact that druid with staff makes more dmg on theu pets than warden means u wont help clearing them in times? i mean there can be more than 1 pet on certain targets and i dont think i need to tell u that.

i dont say wardens viability hasnt decreased but its not as bad as some people claim it to be. warden still has room in certain setups but some people are to stuck on their theories.

Just because, he has a viable timed ra which can be used for petclear once a fight means one of his main jobs is petclear, I am only saying hes the worst pet clearer hib has without twf, so theres no reason for me to list pet clearing as his main jobs in rvr, any ae caster could do that job without a timed ra for 30 points and has more to offer as a Warden would have. Yes you could run with a Warden if that and that and that and that is given - sure - but in those cases you could run with VW or Champ too - but come on, who would do that to primetime now on a regular basis in emain. Champ, Warden, VW, Animist.. if your a masochist go for it, if not and you want to have better chances to find a RvR-Grp roll something else. Thats what the intention of the thread was i think, just telling Uth noobs or new Daoc starters, better not pick Warden anymore if you want to have fun in the long run and thats for sure true. On the other hand, someone should start a topic, Hib needs more Enchs and Mentas now - so thats the positive side, those classes are really viable again after the det nerfs.

Warden will be usable until Major Heals get fixed. After that, they are a TWF-Resist-PBT bot.

Hopefully TWF get's its border graphic removed before Major Heals get downpatched so that the warden at least has that trick up its sleeve.

[R]Bloodwyne wrote:

_Oglop_ wrote:Look at it this way,

You have (had) 3 things to do on a Warden during a fight:

- Cure
- Heal
- Interrupt

wrong

- cure
- heal
- snare (most important job imo after snarefix)
- interrupt
- theu-petclear

u are always busy as warden even without cure, always something to do

I would add even PBT (lol seems no one care, also when pushing he save from a lot of slams the bms), resist body, and TWF for pet clean.

Even skalds/reavers are CCable same as Warderns, but seems they can still play on rvr even if replace them with other classes would be better sometimes ! (bd/2nd rm/2nd cabby/minstrel/arms ..etc)
Every realm have different comination of classes, that's what is daoc..

Force wrote:Warden will be usable until Major Heals get fixed. After that, they are a TWF-Resist-PBT bot.

Hopefully TWF get's its border graphic removed before Major Heals get downpatched so that the warden at least has that trick up its sleeve.

- Change: Casting times of greater healing spell line have been increased (1.72) (#1292)

I haven't played my healer... but i thought this already got changed?

0.5 sec more

Well, I know .. some guys always need a little bit longer to understand whats going on, especially in daoc where 95% of the rvr active players know their char (maybe), maybe some other chars of their realm a bit but have no clue what is going on on the other side, sadly a lot think they knew everything from a char they never played.

I decided to make a short list of the abilities, so even the last who can read should see what is given now:

Ward Grpspec (42reg, 49nurt, 10Blades (sidesnare), 8Parry (Rest)

for 42 reg he gets :
-single Heal 387 HP, 3,25 cast time
- and... no and, thats it now, nothing else useful

for 49 nurt he gets:
- 6 sec Grp Bladeturn
- 24% cast resists Body, Spirit, Energy
-153% castable Speedchant for the time your oop or Bladeturn makes less sense

Bard-Spec (done in 30sec wo real clue, should replace the old Warden) 42 reg, 13 nurt, 47 Music, 13 Blades (sidesnare +3 more spare points for doing da damages)

for 42 reg he gets:
- the exact same heal as the Ward
- cure disease and cure poison
- real viable grp Heal 229 Hp, 3,3 sec (for 47 in reg it would be a 289 HP grp heal)

for 13 nurt he gets:
- endu2, speed 2 (dont laugh its 159% and better as the Warden speed), power reg 1 (here laugh) song

for 47 Music he gets:
- baseline:
- single Mezz 70 sec
- single Amnesie instant
- ae Amnesie instant
- Mezzcure !
-spec:
- 114 delve, dd shout
- confusion spell (petclear)
- 70 sec Ae-Mezz, 3 sec cast
- 22 sec single instant Mezz
- 31 sec Ae-instant-Mezz
- 20% Body/Spirit/Energy resist song

So, if you replace the Healwarden with Healbard you will get a Healer who is stronger than the old Healwarden and and in terms of rupting, everyone should know a bard with this bunch of abilities should do the job better.
Sidesnare have both, resists offer both - ok, i admit it, the bard resists are only 20% and its a song so its a bit worse.
Nervertheless, the list above would be enough to replace Healwarden with Healbard after the Warden "backpatch". You could argue.. in some cases you could run with Ward and so on.. yes sure - but its not only the Warden nerf which came last week, the Determination nerf means, any instant Mezz on enemys is now real viable, and the tanks in your group will be far more happy about demezzes than before. A second bard provides all that, what makes him way stronger as a Warden to this Uthgard settings (still no Grp-purge, so 2 demezzers is the way to go now). The only thing you will miss is the bladeturn, but its simply not strong enough compared to the bunch of abilities a Healbard brings in.
In terms of Ras - you will loose twf and some Wards had Aog (highly overvalued in most hibsetups) i heared and get SoS and AM - equal change i would say.

This wall of text is not meant as QQ, it should only show how you should build now on Hib, if you want to run with 4 supports. Im fine with it, was bored of Ward anyways - but i would recommend a more casterheavy setup after the detnerf with Menta (you will want a second demezzer now) and neither with Warden nor second Bard.

there is no nerf, only FIX

Orihiime wrote:there is no nerf, only FIX

Fix means a correction of a bug, it was a downpatch which is a huge nerf for some classes infact.
I know you like to trashtalk but cut it if someone's saying the truth and put effort in to protect newbies like you from rolling the wrong class, no offense