Xacrag wrote:Feel free to TeamUp aswell if the Mids do it, just search other groups to group up with if 1 Realm start "Zerging".

As I wrote, this doesnt work - as of lack of coordination, lack of another pug, or other grps are too good to want to team up.

Xacrag wrote:If u don´t do it and get rolled over and over stop complain or Swap the Zones. It´s easy.

We swap zones constantly - but Mids atm deliver enough grps to zerg both emain and odins

And I do not complain - I dont care too much about getting zerged or loosing to better 8 men.. but most pug players are not that way, and just log or give up alltogether.... or even some wann roll toons on mid, so they can zerg and just win with numbers- hahah... yeah, so sad.

Maybe for Alb it could be possible to get 2 pugs to work together... but this topic is hib side rvr - and when they got problems even getting one pug to go, there is no chance to get a 16 slot hib pug to counter mid zergs.

Nef Melody wrote:Because there are simply not enough people to pug with on hib if you don't have the irc contacts and stuff, also warden is almost a must have support in a random hib grp and there are almost none.

You overrate warden in a pug, just because i can keep our grp alive doesnt mean that works in a pug - it doesnt, thats why i dont pug - you need a lot of backup as warden especially in lower RR, or your way too easy to counter and that backup doesnt exist in a pug.
Better pick another chargetank or dd - your chances to kill something fast will rise more

Eorkern wrote:For me, hib would be the easiest to pug of the 3 realm, but just theorically.

Atm its quite hard to pug as hib because of the enemy/relic situation imho - there are way too much alb guildgrps and those 2 RM -midgrps out to stand a chance as hibpug. You dont really have a chance as a pug vs those high dmg burst Midcastergrps - every little mistake is your wipe in a matter of seconds (frustrating), and vs those many albguildroups its no fun at all too without the teamspeak coordination you get rupted to death simply too fast.
You need more tankheavy Midgrps or really pug albgrps with bad theurg/sorc as enemys to have a little success with a hib pug. Add the Relic Situation to that and you see why so many pug players rather do something different atm - and yes the relics makes a difference for pug players, every bit helps to have more chances of success there and they dont logg of when they win some fights.

Dirtymind wrote:

Nef Melody wrote:we (requiem) have been the only hib rvr active grp since weeks, probably because hib is the hardest realm to pug effectively if you don't know people.

I keep hearing this over and over... whats so special about hib rvr?

The Alb pugs i run with dont have that perfect setup - we run with reavers or even friars or whatever and do quite ok.

In alb its cleri cleri sorc pala (theu) + fill up, in hib it even could be drui drui bard hero + fill up.

Serious question.. what is the big problem?

Sorry, but you dont have much of a clue. In alb u just need a decent theu/sorc. To have a chance as hib grp if those 2 players are decent you need first of all an eld, second a twf3 warden when the theurg has moc, or you run with more than one ae caster (but hib castergrps suck in pug - we dont have spec af and an total buged and OP healproc) - and when u have that as hib u need a lot more coordination/decent players on more positions (bard/druids/eld/offtanks) to not get rupted to death as on albside. And btw, if you build more tankheavy Uthgardstyle on hib pug u will loose nearly every fight vs same setup on a midpug - if the players are equaly strong / compareable rr - just because the pure dps mids have with zerkers and celerity and 2 demezzer.

If hibs stop creating alts or playing solo classes as main, hib can be the most active rvr realm. Yesterday 3fgh and some more duo trio were zerging thidranki when there are only 2-3 solo. They didn't get any action for hours but nobody left thid or destick the zerg. You can always find lots of rangers in stealth or animists spamming shrooms for hours without a single inc like psychopaths on ck walls whenever hib has the ck . But all the hibs vanish when they cap thidranki somehow.

Harkon wrote: And btw, if you build more tankheavy Uthgardstyle on hib pug u will loose nearly every fight vs same setup on a midpug - if the players are equaly strong / compareable rr - just because the pure dps mids have with zerkers and celerity and 2 demezzer.

Seriously.. If an aug healer can get in cele range against a tankheavy hib group and survive, you need to pick another MA next time so you will get your free rps.

And also I don't agree with you about ''Just need decent theu/sorc'' part. They both can be eliminated by a decent eld, so hib only needs a decent eld to win? And why hib needs decent druids but alb doesn't need clerics? Druid is much more easier to play for inexperienced players since there are 4 classes can cure/heal in group. On the other hand AT LEAST ONE cleric must be realy good to make it work in a group with 2 or even 3 cloth casters while you have to run with a DEF tank without STOI.

imamizer wrote:

Harkon wrote: And btw, if you build more tankheavy Uthgardstyle on hib pug u will loose nearly every fight vs same setup on a midpug - if the players are equaly strong / compareable rr - just because the pure dps mids have with zerkers and celerity and 2 demezzer.

Seriously.. If an aug healer can get in cele range against a tankheavy hib group and survive, you need to pick another MA next time so you will get your free rps.

And also I don't agree with you about ''Just need decent theu/sorc'' part. They both can be eliminated by a decent eld, so hib only needs a decent eld to win? And why hib needs decent druids but alb doesn't need clerics? Druid is much more easier to play for inexperienced players since there are 4 classes can cure/heal in group. On the other hand AT LEAST ONE cleric must be realy good to make it work in a group with 2 or even 3 cloth casters while you have to run with a DEF tank without STOI.

1.understand the first part as zerker/celerity/ 2 demezzers - there dont have to be aug celerity on all the time to have superior dps, wanna dispute that?

2. one eld cant shut down a decent theurg, especially when the theurg is decent enough to save purge for ns

3. druid is after, some say before bard, the key slot in a hib grp, hes all that what cleric is + the true mainccler - if you have druids playing like clerics the hibgrp will automaticially fail, they have to play like pac +shaman+ aug in one person - one of my hands has more fingers as the amount of decent druids in whole hibernia

Harkon wrote:3.they have to play like pac +shaman+ aug

So the Mezz/Disease/Demezz/Caststun(if necessary)/Spam Amnesia aswell as Heal/Root/Shear/Rupt ?

Oh wait i forgot that the Aughealer is the MAINHEALER in a Midgrp, he do like 90% of healing anyway.

Can´t see that from a Druid since you have 2 Druids/Warden and Bard(mostley he dont heal but he could) which heal.

Xacrag wrote:

Harkon wrote:3.they have to play like pac +shaman+ aug

So the Mezz/Disease/Demezz/Caststun(if necessary)/Spam Amnesia aswell as Heal/Root/Shear/Rupt ?

Oh wait i forgot that the Aughealer is the MAINHEALER in a Midgrp, he do like 90% of healing anyway.

Can´t see that from a Druid since you have 2 Druids/Warden and Bard(mostley he dont heal but he could) which heal.

The pac + aug + shaman compare was meant, that they have to be everywhere in fight to fit those different roles - their positioning is really hard to handle to either cc and shear enough without instant spells and keep the group alive.
And i am talking about pug, not about our group, as i said, a warden in a pug will be rather inefficient compared with another chargetank/dd class in most cases - and just because a bard has the ability to heal, doesnt mean he is able or has the spec to do it good enough - especially in a pug i would be happy with one, who gets endu on and demezzes.

The difference between alb and hib is, u need the druid cc to win vs albs in most cases - they need either the cc or their superior rupt - they have more possibilitys what means its easier to win as alb pug.

I want more hibs in rvr, but sadly i dont have any toon above lvl 16-17 to help that cause ^^

- Maybe a rp bonus for lvl 50 not stealther could improve that situation and bring more player in rvr hibside??

--------
Anyway, @Harkon, hib fulltank is more stronger that mid fulltank pug. No way ! (with same skill at least!)

Bm have thrust dmg and can just kill a healer within some seconds while bard rupt other one, just think about also flurry, slam (!), and rr5. And if zerks assist on druid just hit rr5 and hope that bms had killed healers in that time ^^

I've made many incs full tank vs full tank pugs where healer just get exploded in before charge go down.. embarassing!

Ofc when u start to have a good shaman (as mid) that know how to handle 3 bms (disease, shear, root, kite) you cant think about survive initial burst dmg and start to actual play more than 15 sec ^^

Harkon wrote:

imamizer wrote:

Harkon wrote: And btw, if you build more tankheavy Uthgardstyle on hib pug u will loose nearly every fight vs same setup on a midpug - if the players are equaly strong / compareable rr - just because the pure dps mids have with zerkers and celerity and 2 demezzer.

Seriously.. If an aug healer can get in cele range against a tankheavy hib group and survive, you need to pick another MA next time so you will get your free rps.

And also I don't agree with you about ''Just need decent theu/sorc'' part. They both can be eliminated by a decent eld, so hib only needs a decent eld to win? And why hib needs decent druids but alb doesn't need clerics? Druid is much more easier to play for inexperienced players since there are 4 classes can cure/heal in group. On the other hand AT LEAST ONE cleric must be realy good to make it work in a group with 2 or even 3 cloth casters while you have to run with a DEF tank without STOI.

1.understand the first part as zerker/celerity/ 2 demezzers - there dont have to be aug celerity on all the time to have superior dps, wanna dispute that?

2. one eld cant shut down a decent theurg, especially when the theurg is decent enough to save purge for ns

3. druid is after, some say before bard, the key slot in a hib grp, hes all that what cleric is + the true mainccler - if you have druids playing like clerics the hibgrp will automaticially fail, they have to play like pac +shaman+ aug in one person - one of my hands has more fingers as the amount of decent druids in whole hibernia

1. I understand that Harkon, thanks for the explanation I don't dispute that even norse zerkers deal more dmg than your thrust or split celt bms but only casters groups win with overdps on hib. 4 healers, decent cc and having 5 members need to be interrupted makes hib competitive imo. Mid has 2 demezzers but they need that, so i'll not argue about that.

2. Isn't pet clear eld job? After ns imm they can ns again on and on. It's not that hard and most elds doing that already.

3. When did I say druids should play like clerics? Also you can't compare the amount of the heal that is expected from a single druid and from an aug healer. It's not even close.

Whatever, all these are not relevant to the topic. Hibs don't log in their 50 group toons unless there is zerg event like relic raid currently. Few trying to build pugs but they can rarely find enough to fill the group. I'm sure it will change soon.

Caemma wrote:I want more hibs in rvr, but sadly i dont have any toon above lvl 16-17 to help that cause ^^

- Maybe a rp bonus for lvl 50 not stealther could improve that situation and bring more player in rvr hibside??

--------
Anyway, @Harkon, hib fulltank is more stronger that mid fulltank pug. No way ! (with same skill at least!)

Bm have thrust dmg and can just kill a healer within some seconds while bard rupt other one, just think about also flurry, slam (!), and rr5. And if zerks assist on druid just hit rr5 and hope that bms had killed healers in that time ^^

I've made many incs full tank vs full tank pugs where healer just get exploded in before charge go down.. embarassing!

Ofc when u start to have a good shaman (as mid) that know how to handle 3 bms (disease, shear, root, kite) you cant think about survive initial burst dmg and start to actual play more than 15 sec ^^

i said same skill/rr

You/ your group is obviously doing a lot wrong when vendo mode Zerkers get outburstet by BMs

Demezz is one of the biggest problems in Hib RvR.
In Mid you have 2 demezzer, in alb you have a det5 demezzer with QC every 30sec or with conc3 even more often.
That makes the difference in hib pugs, I would prefer a

heal bard
bard
bm
bm
hero
drui
drui
eld

Setup for pugs

Celteen wrote:Demezz is one of the biggest problems in Hib RvR.
In Mid you have 2 demezzer, in alb you have a det5 demezzer with QC every 30sec or with conc3 even more often.
That makes the difference in hib pugs, I would prefer a

heal bard
bard
bm
bm
hero
drui
drui
eld

Setup for pugs

That s the one thing I hated about playing in Hibernia. If purge is down, nobody else is going to demezz you. Hence why Wardens are essential for groups to lower the duration of Mezzes with the resist buffs they provide.

Ask one/some of the 50 solo rangers to log/make an alt to pug with you.

If I don't have purge up and no immunity I just think of a 2k circle around the sorc where I dont want to get stucked ;P
But in Pugs there is so much going wrong and 2. mezz will just kill the whole hib grp, if the bard decides to stay in sorc range.

I played on Hibernia for 2.5+ years and I can say that this is a combination of things. It is most certainly not that Hibernia is unfriendly to Pug's. It is that Hibernia has a VERY high population of PvE's and BG re-rollers, they also have alot of elitists that wont take anyone in a group unless its sombody they know or trust, the ones that do RvR alot prefer solo (i put myself in this category), and the biggest issue is that I believe Hibs as a whole have the worst time with is that they have no desire or drive to stay out through the quiet periods waiting for action. If they lose a fight or 2 they log rather then keep on trying. If they run around for 10-20 minutes with no action they log. To be fair, I've seen Mids and Albs do the exact same things listed above, just not quite as much as Hib.

As far as the discussion of how well Hib can perform with a Pug group, I will admit that I dont know jack$hit about 8 man RvR. I will say that alot of the discussion about Hib Pugs is kinda misleading. You guys talk about what Hib lacks in a group when making a pug, but that goes for every realm. Hence the term Pug (pick up group) using whatever you have laying around. Of course the average pug will not stack up against a set 8 man, but Hibs can do just fine against other pugs with their own if they play right. I've seen it happen on many an occasion.