It's a complicate (bug)abuse (imho) so it's not easy to discuss, maybe if someone can make a video we could examinate better the issue.. i can only tell prcise 2 things:

- Positional system is broken, you can land back/side style from absurd positions.
- Your and enemy current position are a bit differents from the "server known" positions due to normal time needed between your client PC <---> Server

Abusing these 2 things you can do leviathan constantly just "walk back n' forth" as Nayeh said, but at least, you should see him going forward and backward 1-2 steps (even if not "passing you")

Maybe, fixxing positional system could help avoid these abuses

_Oglop_ wrote:Were you "Sticking" your opponent? Standing still and facing your target? Did your opponent constantly walk back n' forth, like a push n' pull of a shoreline wave? Was your opponent "Dancing" ? (Are you keyboard turning?)

I never stick my opponent.
I was facing my target and walking backwards.
They were doing what looked like a normal run threw attempt, trying to run through me and get the hit off while inside of me or through me and facing but were not even close to running through me like the way it was before.
I guess you could call this dancing as you put it. I would say they look just like I do on my ranger when I fight, or any other class trying to use the usual run through method.
I am and always have use the keyboard to manually face. I dont know why my play style could work fine before, against the same opponents, and now it is not working and suddenly i'm getting multiple levi's w/ a character in front of me and not inside of me.

RonELuvv wrote:I have a question that I think I allready have an answer to. For starters, let me say that I play a ranger as my main toon so not only do I fully understand how the "run threw" method of landing positional styles works, but I also understand how to counteract this at a fairly decent level.

Now in saying all that, over the last 2 weeks I have noticed more and more reavers landing leviathan styles on myself and others in which they are clearly in front of a player. I know there has been times that I have landed my side stun while clearly in front of a player, but its pretty rare and usually happened near a lag spike of some sort. In one fight alone I had Nubrina land 4 leviathans on me when he was clearly in front of me. I only use this as an example because he got 4 off and I had a witness watching the fight. Sleepwel seen it all and said on his screen he was also clearly in front of me. I've had similiar happen vs Maelle and Arcangel. Let me state, this is not an attack on them. I dont think they are bug abusing or doing anything on purpose, I just wanted to hear from others on this to see if I was going crazy or what.

I was told by another player last night that it might be because of the people upgrading to 1.113 and that it caps people at 60 FPS which allows for alot more leeway to perform positionals. Fighting a reaver is tough enough, but when they dont even have to remotely be in position to land a VERY powerful style on you then it doesnt really give you much of a chance.

I would also like to stress that this wasnt the player entering the middle of my character and yet still in front of me. What I mean is that they were not only in front of me, but there was significant space between me and the reaver. He was nowhere near what is normally used as the "run through" method should be. When using this method on my ranger the key is to time the weapons going off as you are in the middle of the toon you are attacking. Magico proved that this is livelike, but you are not supposed to be getting these off when you are not in the middle of that toon.

i uploaded where you can see how i played my reaver , in the video you clearly see iam behind when i use leviathan , it's maybe a lag or something cause lot of ppl told me that i was front of them when leviathan was landed , but on my screen i was behind them, also i was still playing with 1.103 , just changed to 1.109 just before i stop playing daoc so i don't this it's a version bug

RonELuvv wrote:I have a question that I think I allready have an answer to. For starters, let me say that I play a ranger as my main toon so not only do I fully understand how the "run threw" method of landing positional styles works, but I also understand how to counteract this at a fairly decent level.

Now in saying all that, over the last 2 weeks I have noticed more and more reavers landing leviathan styles on myself and others in which they are clearly in front of a player. I know there has been times that I have landed my side stun while clearly in front of a player, but its pretty rare and usually happened near a lag spike of some sort. In one fight alone I had Nubrina land 4 leviathans on me when he was clearly in front of me. I only use this as an example because he got 4 off and I had a witness watching the fight. Sleepwel seen it all and said on his screen he was also clearly in front of me. I've had similiar happen vs Maelle and Arcangel. Let me state, this is not an attack on them. I dont think they are bug abusing or doing anything on purpose, I just wanted to hear from others on this to see if I was going crazy or what.

I was told by another player last night that it might be because of the people upgrading to 1.113 and that it caps people at 60 FPS which allows for alot more leeway to perform positionals. Fighting a reaver is tough enough, but when they dont even have to remotely be in position to land a VERY powerful style on you then it doesnt really give you much of a chance.

I would also like to stress that this wasnt the player entering the middle of my character and yet still in front of me. What I mean is that they were not only in front of me, but there was significant space between me and the reaver. He was nowhere near what is normally used as the "run through" method should be. When using this method on my ranger the key is to time the weapons going off as you are in the middle of the toon you are attacking. Magico proved that this is livelike, but you are not supposed to be getting these off when you are not in the middle of that toon.

i uploaded where you can see how i played my reaver , in the video you clearly see iam behind when i use leviathan , it's maybe a lag or something cause lot of ppl told me that i was front of them when leviathan was landed , but on my screen i was behind them, also i was still playing with 1.103 , just changed to 1.109 just before i stop playing daoc so i don't this it's a version bug.i can tell it's like intimid , i remember fighting him , i could swear when he land a stun on me he was in front of me , but since i knew it happen the same with my reaver i know that he use no bug or something

Ping.

It would be interesting to see a duel with anytime-levi filmed by both parties.
And it would be awesome to have the same kind of things from the server point of view, like the position of both players every 10 to 50ms

Caemma wrote:It's a complicate (bug)abuse (imho) so it's not easy to discuss, maybe if someone can make a video we could examinate better the issue.. i can only tell prcise 2 things:

- Positional system is broken, you can land back/side style from absurd positions.

Well it's broken, and it's possible to lag abuse because /stick and /face were badly introduced in the game.
Imo, server should handle a "face" (and even stick) state. If you put your character in face mode, the "positional resolution" mechanic should take this into account and always consider that your target is in front of you, without taking any movement into account.
But there would be no more "skill" for a lot of class with no more anytime-side or anytime-behind styles. And it will become hard to go through defense...

.

RonELuvv wrote: ...

ask Intimid show u how to moonwalk ...

... problem solved



then u'll have the problem that 99% of your swings will be blocked/parry from Uthgard defence system, but this is another story

as i said a lot of times before, i've never seen the positionals strafe abuse i've found on this server on live, and even if Magicco say is livelike, i continue think on Uthgard there is something broke.

btw u can moonwalk or i've found working well make the same movement on different timing.

Going just backwalk not help u (like was on live), so try to cross they and spam your self anytimer + backstun backup, ofc with different timing.

on Drawstab i made this lot of time, and with good timing seem work pretty well

full moonwalk will work against rangers, or any class that not wear a shield.

try it or meet us on game i show u what i mean.

bb

realac0 wrote:

RonELuvv wrote: ...

as i said a lot of times before, i've never seen the positionals strafe abuse i've found on this server on live, and even if Magicco say is livelike, i continue think on Uthgard there is something broke.


bb

this... atm i play live daoc again and its clearly that something is different there!!

it is way to easy here to land positional styles from any side.
And i agree it feels like it has become even a lot more easy lately. Yesterday i hit a backsnare from the front (so even on my computer i was facing my opponent, and was even close to max melee distance). I just as always pressed backsnare and anytimer as follow up, as a standard routine, and was like "wtf i hit the backstyle?!?"

And i had zero lags.

To this extreme this has not happened to me before in the 3,5 years i play here, at least without any lags.

the people that continuosly get levi'd in the face certainly have connection issues, i am always on your back on my screen when landing levi's... BUT as some have wrote. there are a few occassions where a positional style lands from the most odd of place's and oftern u never even have the players back. ive seen this from many different players rescently, and ofc most noticable is the reaver's levi, ive landed these freak levi's before but only a handfull of times.

i.e yesturday i chase a healer who was out of range but i spammed levi whilst chasing, when he stopped to /face me and cast i levi him in the face when i arrived. ive only ever done this to players who /face or moonwalk though. ( run from me, then /face me and count how long u get not in veiw untill u can cast on me......... that duration of not in view is when i am most likely to levi u in the face)

And once again i put this all down to server lagg, nothing else. people have to remember server population has risen yet again and more importantly albs have possibly the biggest population its ever had. that means more thurg pets all day long

The server lag theory doesnt hold up too well for me. I could see it if Zack or myself played euro primetime, but we both play from around
9 pm US EST to 11 US EST. Population at this time is usually 3-400 at most, with maybe 10 people total in emain. I guess the server "could" lag with this many, but i would hope not. I can accept that it could be connection speed as we can't guarantee that especially to a EU server.

I'll re-iterate what ZAck mentioned. It seems odd that i have played on this server many years and just recently i have noticed this happening 4-5 times in a fight. I never thought much about it when it happened 1 or 2 times in a fight. With a lot going on (facing, running, jumping, straffing, swinging) that there would occasionally be a hiccup that would allow positionals to hit out of scope, but recently it has become commonplace.

Zack and i talked about it again last night. I was leaning toward this being a version mismatch issue, but he is running 1.109 and i am on 1.113. We have both experienced the front Levi more than we previously used to see.

realac0 wrote:Going just backwalk not help u (like was on live), so try to cross they and spam your self anytimer + backstun backup, ofc with different timing.

I've watched Zack do this exact thing many times on his Ranger and it did work. Walking backwards while constantly facing or adjusting your direction while walking backwards thwarted "most" attempts at the run through levi....until recently. Since he hasnt played his ranger much recently then i cant say that it would still work. I can say that i have watched many, many of his fights on his hunter, and the same technique he was using on his ranger (walking backwards away from the reaver while continuously facing or changing face direction), is not working like it used to.

realac0 wrote:ask Intimid show u how to moonwalk ...

... problem solved .

Not entirely true. I watched several occasions where moonwalk was used and Skarz still got the levi off on his reaver. I asked the moonwalker how he got the levi. It looked like Skarz was sprinting, but the moonwalk was keeping up with his sprint, and the levi still hit (several times).

i have much practice landing levi VS a player moonwalking, thnx to requiem

nice try

after the last discussion on moonwalking i was assured by members of requiem u and others wouldnt use moonwalking again in 8v8, then sard and lasa dnt join ur grp 1 day and POW u break out the moonwalk.

so no try... just fact. requiem are the ONLY grp to activly use moonwalk in 8v8, and intimid is the ONLY solo'er to activly use moonwalking. if u dnt like it, dnt do it.