Rizla wrote:

Tirax wrote:Maybe its time to reroll this Server to NF ? this old keeps suck as hell too.
If we had another place where people could get rps or do solo stuff. Maybe we could get exp again as lvl35+ toon in DF, because atm its senseless to even step inside DF at 35, making it horrible hard to get a toon to 50 and earn money.

I haveto agree on most points you stated here. DF has become a hellish place to lvl, so much that people don't even find it attractive anymore when it opens. I haveto agree on of keeps being inferior to nf keeps aswell. It's sad to admit, but i haveto say i'm starting to miss good old agra, tough i don't know if it's due to an incomplete OF implementation or not.

An incomplete implementation of OF is only a part of it. The entire setting should be adapted to the fact that we have OF in order to make it work as it should. It's not that hard, it just takes the will to solve it. As long as no efforts are done to do so, I say OF hasn't even gotten a fair chance yet.

Zarkor wrote:

Rizla wrote:

Tirax wrote:Maybe its time to reroll this Server to NF ? this old keeps suck as hell too.
If we had another place where people could get rps or do solo stuff. Maybe we could get exp again as lvl35+ toon in DF, because atm its senseless to even step inside DF at 35, making it horrible hard to get a toon to 50 and earn money.

I haveto agree on most points you stated here. DF has become a hellish place to lvl, so much that people don't even find it attractive anymore when it opens. I haveto agree on of keeps being inferior to nf keeps aswell. It's sad to admit, but i haveto say i'm starting to miss good old agra, tough i don't know if it's due to an incomplete OF implementation or not.

An incomplete implementation of OF is only a part of it. The entire setting should be adapted to the fact that we have OF in order to make it work as it should. It's not that hard, it just takes the will to solve it. As long as no efforts are done to do so, I say OF hasn't even gotten a fair chance yet.

it has....8 years ago, it sucked.
Check all those whinethreads about emain-zerging, Milegate-camping. Wallbombing, waiting...lots of waiting 20 Minutes+ because some groupmembers forgot thier amulett and ridicoulus overpowered CC.

Excluding OF RAs (please, let's not go there), what major aspect related to RvR is missing from Uthgard's OF implementation?

I don't like OF because the maps are poorly designed and ugly. Anyone who says that you get more variety with OF must be playing a different game than me. As far as I can tell variety in OF means three things:

Green hills with trees. Camp the mile-gate for inc.

White hills with trees. Camp the mile-gate and hope for inc.

Brown hills with trees. Don't bother camping the mile-gate. No one comes here.

I have become so bored with the frustrating and repetitive nature of combat in OF that I can feel my enjoyment of the game fading away as soon as I leave the portal keep and begin the long run to amg.

What's worse is that as Rizla pointed out, now that DF is the most popular RvR zone it has become a playground for zergs with nothing better to do than farm lowbies for hours.

Tirax wrote:it has....8 years ago, it sucked.
Check all those whinethreads about emain-zerging, Milegate-camping. Wallbombing, waiting...lots of waiting 20 Minutes+ because some groupmembers forgot thier amulett and ridicoulus overpowered CC.

I never said OF was perfect on live, what I am saying is that with the right adaptations, OF can work for Uthgard. Shorter timers such as the ones we have now are a good start, but they really aren't enough.

Seyha wrote:Excluding OF RAs (please, let's not go there), what major aspect related to RvR is missing from Uthgard's OF implementation?

Like I said, you won't solve the problem with only looking at OF. What's still missing in OF itself could be for instance the incentive for players that aren't lvl 50 RR4+ fullSCed to head there (caused by the late BGs and lack of attractive (40+) XP possibilities in OF.) and the RvR dungeons.

Zarkor wrote:Like I said, you won't solve the problem with only looking at OF. What's still missing in OF itself could be for instance the incentive for players that aren't lvl 50 RR4+ fullSCed to head there (caused by the late BGs and lack of attractive (40+) XP possibilities in OF.) and the RvR dungeons.

End-game RvR population imbalance has always been a problem on Uthgard. The only thing that has changed recently is the map(s). Trying to fix a fundamental design problem (terrible OF maps) by poking and prodding low-level players to run out into Emain and get zerged will do nothing to change this. We're already having that problem in DF.

Seyha wrote:Excluding OF RAs (please, let's not go there), what major aspect related to RvR is missing from Uthgard's OF implementation?

Well, comparing to the uthgard agra implementation and not live, decent xp spots like agra had to stimulate xping, smallman, xpgrpkiller, xpgrpkiller hunter rvr. comparing to live i can only think of keeps relating to relicguards and rvr dungeons atm.

Seyha wrote:

Zarkor wrote:Like I said, you won't solve the problem with only looking at OF. What's still missing in OF itself could be for instance the incentive for players that aren't lvl 50 RR4+ fullSCed to head there (caused by the late BGs and lack of attractive (40+) XP possibilities in OF.) and the RvR dungeons.

End-game RvR population imbalance has always been a problem on Uthgard. The only thing that has changed recently is the map(s). Trying to fix a fundamental design problem (terrible OF maps) by poking and prodding low-level players to run out into Emain and get zerged will do nothing to change this. We're already having that problem in DF.

The situation is so bad in DF exactly because there's no permanent option on casual RvR. People that either don't enjoy playing in PuG FGs or just don't group gladly take the opportunity to have fun playing their character whenever it arises. This means you basicly have all those RvR hungry players packed into what is to most people a place to xp in.
When you manage to spread this type of action out in OF, you will have a way larger area for those players to hunt on, making xping a lot more viable inside DF aswell as in OF, since the boni there would be worth the risk and the lvl 50s are more spreaded if they manage to get past the chokepoints that will most likely be watched by other players trying to intercept them.

End-game RvR population has indeed always been a problem on Uthgard, the way OF is now, it's just another negative aspect that's influencing the situation. In other words, OF isn't the problem itself, it's only become a part of it, as I said before.

Rizla wrote:Well, comparing to the uthgard agra implementation and not live, decent xp spots like agra had to stimulate xping, smallman, xpgrpkiller, xpgrpkiller hunter rvr. comparing to live i can only think of keeps relating to relicguards and rvr dungeons atm.

Exactly, and to really spice up the action there should be a removal of the last BG (and of course the reworking of the lower ones) and a compensation for that through increasing the XP gain per RvR kill in OF (XP, not RP!) to x15 instead of x10 so that not only PvE but even RvR in OF becomes interesting to leveling players.

Tirax wrote:Check all those whinethreads about emain-zerging, Milegate-camping. Wallbombing, waiting...lots of waiting 20 Minutes+ because some groupmembers forgot thier amulett and ridicoulus overpowered CC.

second port

and yes hell nerf CC , its freaking OPed !!!!
you can get mezzed after charging and taking down 1-4 enemies
so nerf CC!!!

maybe compare uthgard OF to uthgard NF , and not live OF to uthgard NF?

and i remember staff saying , the port times are needed to get a big amount of players heading to the MGs at same time,.. so... to make it zergy , yes zergs were and are a part of the game ,.. RvR ,.its not WoW
and yes you can zerg with skill and without , zerg requires skill too!

but agree,.. if i 'd still play ranger i had one more reason to go df , or one reason less to go OF ;P (without the solo missions)

bad thing i noticed: all those ppl that wanna do casual rvr go df, this is caused by GGs/set grps, which are almost impossible to kill with pugs , and finally the 8vs8/no add mentality
due to this, emain often is ruled by 1 or 2 GGs/fixed grps,.. which dont get inc anymore when df switches.....

good thing: to try to kill grps that are raiding keeps, those grps are mostly week/casual rvr players , so you gotta chance with a pug too, since its a pug also....(but not many pugs are trying to kill grps which are taking keeps)
the killspamm lures more incs there and casual rvr is more or less established,.. only problem : you often are too late to kill the fg after they took the keep,.. not to talk about defending...^^

give realm wide infos about keeps under siege as on relic keeps , and ppl that learn to use these message dont need to go df anymore ,..
going df isnt woerth it often anyway,..since one realm cant come back after wipe for a longer time (like 15/30/60min port timer!!!)

but actually when im fighting in df vs big zerg or trying to reach fgs that take a keep in time ,.. i feel like *hey , this is RvR / im RvRing*
somehow this df zerg has to be pulled to OF

-higher reward for keep taking
- realmwide keep unter siege messages
- maybe a shorter port timer for the beginning to repopulate it (once enough ppl are RvRing again they can be easily adjusted to old timers , as long as community tries before it cries again ; so maybe dont announce it ;P )

could help

i see a problem in GG/fixed setups vs PuGs
GGs/fixed grps attitude is : no add/8vs8 only , argumenting with: if you add enemies several times they log out --->killing RvR, (which is right, but other way round the non add/8vs8 only mentality kills RvR population too, over a longer time frame)

PuGs/casual RvR players cant win vs GGs/set grps, they dont have time to optimize their playing, and always with new random ppl, adding isnt an issue if you get added--> bad luck/timing , if you add you get some rps to provide the base RR/RAs(that is/are needed) which you can have with RR5 or RR6
so adding/zerging closes the gap between higher RRs GGs/set groups

both attitudes/playstile work, in their own enviroment, but to combine them ,.. its tricky,..

when GGs with an average RR of 8 or 9 believe PuGs with an average RR of 4 or 5 , got at least a tiny chance in winning a equal numbered fight , they simply have no clue , and didnt play in random grps for long time...
so im sure they know! ,.. I've seen GGs/fixed groups taking a break or going to DF very often lately,... cause of Anguish/other stronger GGs/fixed groups ;P , even those GGs/set groups that say: "DF is for noobs and we dont go there ...."

for sure i prefer clean 8vs8 fights , but if that means only 10-50% of each realms population (which are willing to RvR) are participating in RvR, i'll for sure give up those "8vs8 only" for getting a decent RvR situation, which doesnt mean we dont get any 8vs8 anymore,..

its not like GGs/fixed groups cant RvR anymore when casual RvR is existing ; they can zerg surf , cut off the zergs grp supply,..they can still have 8vs8...

but if GGs/fixed groups forbit ppl to add, and casual players do, its killing the casual players RvR , RPs= indicator for success in RvR->no RPs -> no success--> no fun ,.. cause success causes fun....
to prove this: question to all GGs/fixed grp player: did you have more fun gaining 40krps/evening or 20krps/evening, usually 40k cause you have had more fights won = more fights in gerenell (if you think thats a dumb example use your brain and think on)

but sure its nice to roll PuGs one by one with 1-5 minute breaks as GG/set group,.. actually its great , very nice rps , non stop fun...
but in the end it leads to empty emain,.. just the few strongest grps are participating RvR ,.. others get flamed for adding, for killing RvR , which they do blieve, cause they are the less experienced players
GG/set group players join RvR/zerg bg to convince ppl that zerging and adding is lame and killing rvr,... hell it is RvR , or at least a part of it!

many of the so honerful "no adders" add anyway,..
after running out with a PuG the 5th time and meeting mid grps which run in 10-30sec distance to each other the 5th time, and then after releasing the 5th time i read the Bards writing (YES , the 5th time!!!)
Bard: "damn okay lets go again , hope they dont add next time,..." *LOL?*
or
on TS someone is calling: " pull out of fight , all go south , pull out of fight, other hib grp added!!!!" " we re fighting a GG that doesnt add"
and we did pull out,... 2-3 times (other hibs died)
just to get exactly this GG added in our back when fighting another alb grp,..
i simply get headache, and feel like getting a GG/set grp running or simply stop playing
and well , i do believe this server shall provide a gaming experience for ALL kind of players, not just for the very experienced ones (that maybe got some more time to spend playing) , which will still be able to participate in RvR when casual RvR is existing....
yes i even believe it would increase their "fun" minutes , of the game , but also it would add some frustration they'd have to deal with....

and btw: its does not require much "skill" to roll over a pug as a GG/set group with way higher RR,...., i mean , nothing to be proud of to roll a PuG as GG

plz listen to Zarkor !!!! he wrote everything thats needed for having nice RvR for all.
when i first read his post it sounded like * i wanna farm xpers* to me , but if you read all , its definatly not that way,..

and btw: in agramon with like 50players in RvR we have had a 75% xp bonus,... why theres such a crappy bonus in OF , allthough OF would need it much more ,.. could understand if it was 40% earlier and got set to 75% now ,.. but the other way round ,.. ?!?! ,.i dont get it ,..why?

to ensure ppl dont xp too fast relativly safe cause of 3 big zone? well then ppl that wanna farm xpers have to run long distances... and they will !
but as it is now ,. they dont even have to search for em... so noone has to search for the guys that wanna farm those xpers,...noone is willing to wait near a xp grp to engage the guys that want to kill xpers
again ... check zakors post ;P

all information for a "RvR (bug) fix" are there , you know how it works ,.. there is nothing more players can do,...

75% xp bonus to OF and DF zerg goes OF,.. i bet[/i]

I hope the staff has notice the increase in DF RvR and are willing to ether customize OF to fix its problems or go back to NF. Yes we want things to be classic as much as we can, but not if it will make the server less fun to play on, im sure many can agree to that. One thing i remember back on Purga when they had gone from only Agramon as RvR to Hib NF zones only for RvR, it made things very intresting, even though it was big and no walls for hot spots, people still managed it. And what did that have to offer, well we had one site with a swamp, another area with a tower that was in some ruins/maze , tons of water, bridges, tons of towers and a few keeps, Relics, and much more. That is what i found fun, all the dynamic evirments and encouters you could run into. Then what we have on OF, with AMG, MMG and so on. BORing and that is one reason i think OF is failing.

Seyha wrote:End-game RvR population imbalance has always been a problem on Uthgard. The only thing that has changed recently is the map(s). Trying to fix a fundamental design problem (terrible OF maps) by poking and prodding low-level players to run out into Emain and get zerged will do nothing to change this. We're already having that problem in DF.

QFT.

Time to bring an end to the failed experiment that was OF on Uthgard, especially now that even the epeen boosting "huge numbers" of new players that all the classictards were using as the ultimate pro-OF fact seem to have developed a mind of their own and realized OF just plainly sucks.

Just stop talking about any changes on Uthgard and lemme quote staff:

Eridon wrote:Wir wollen kein "Einloggen, Plattmachen, Ausloggen" Server werden. Dafür gib es Counterstrike oder i50 Server.

In english:
We don´t want to become a "Login, Kill, logout" server. There´s Counterstrike and i50 servers for that.

Well, I´m having fun in PvP and as a person like me that´s playing DAoC for maybe 2h an evening during the weekdays this pretty much sounds like:


Quit your life if you wanna have fun playing Uthgard!


This server had so much potential and it´s just sad to see where it´s going to ...

no snigel..

this means:

Accept you need to work for improving your character instead of wanting everything served for you on a silver plate

running around empty zones is improving your character?

nixian wrote:no snigel..

this means:

Accept you need to work for improving your character instead of wanting everything served for you on a silver plate

Man, I would accept dying 2h on nice balanced fights maybe every 12mins and I´d really like to have some h/day online stats from you

@ my activity level

not enough lately - busy irl

but that is quite offtopic - so please stay on topic