Seyha wrote:

Zarkor wrote:

Seyha wrote:Swapping OF keeps with NF keeps would be great.

I don't agree, but that's old news I guess.

I would actually love to hear your explanation for why OF Keeps are superior to NF ones.

I never said which ones are better, I just like the OF keeps more.


@Neju, you're right.

Zarkor wrote:I never said which ones are better, I just like the OF keeps more.

What a useless post. Don't shy away from a challenge, Zarkor.

Here's why OF sieges suck:

-Poorly designed keeps with battlements spaced millimeters apart, terrible LoS issues, claustrophobic (or empty in the case of Hib) interiors consisting of little more than a stair case leading up to the lord room. The result is that battles inside the keep itself are aggravating cluster-f*cks of melee and pbaoe with healers and ranged attackers having all kinds of stupid problems.

-Siege weapons consist of a ram. Sit on the ram. Swing the ram.

-No oil so tanks can stfu and sit in the lord room until one side whipes.

Here's why NF sieges are better:

-Well designed keeps with battlements that work like battlements, good LoS, and spacious interiors that allow for intense running battles to and from the lord room.

-Siege weapons that give the attackers more options and more stuff to do

-Burning oil that gives defending tanks something to do besides sitting in the lord room with their thumbs up their asses.

I'm surprised (not at all) that you prefer the OF Keeps more. You do realize that the NF Keep is basically an improved version of the OF Relic Keep? Sooo by extension you must like the NF Keeps.

Just from my time in Brae I loathed the CK. While I didn't get to experience the siege aspect, the design just seemed absolutely retarded. Any sort of fighting involving the battlements/inside the keep was usually fubbared constantly by wonky LoS issues.

Way to hijack/derail a thread. OP was suggesting a way to make Keeps more intresting. You folks decide to refight the OF/NW wars yet again.

Comon Zarkor, give us a wall of text!

Gil wrote:Way to hijack/derail a thread. OP was suggesting a way to make Keeps more intresting. You folks decide to refight the OF/NW wars yet again.

Exact
Whatever my opinion on OF/NF, the subject here is how to promote RvR and basically keeps attack/defense on OF, which is now a baseline for discussion.

Today, nobody cares of keeps and claiming keeps except to have DF
My Guild in Albion provoke other french guilds in a roleplay background to push keeps attack/defense. And Hexagons in Hibernia has reacted positively and try to have our claimed keep when the can and same for us on their keep in priority. Like arch ennemies
But it is not enough IMO. It is just a good starting point of realm proud based on fair provocation

Basic question: What is the interest to claim keeps today
1/ Be aware of keep attack
2/ Spend your guild BP
That's all....

So my proposal
And so Holsten-Knight proposal

Seyha wrote:-Siege weapons consist of a ram. Sit on the ram. Swing the ram.

Maybe on Uthgard, but OF definately had trebuchets and catapults. Perhaps ballista's aswell, I'm not 100% sure about them.

Seyha wrote:Sooo by extension you must like the NF Keeps.

I don't. ^^

I love the realm uniqueness aswell as the old feel of the OF keeps a lot more than all the improvements made to make things easier/handier/fairer, that's just my opinion, just like you have yours.



Anyway I don't want this to turn into yet another "zomg I don't like OF thread" spamfest by the few who actually do. Even though the actual topic is interesting, I really don't think this should be focussed on at the time. That's why I'll just quote myself again to end my post.

Zarkor wrote:However, I believe this server still has a long way to go before things like these (as interesting as they may be) should even be considered. What should be focussed on now as much as possible would be the decision about which RA system will finally be implemented.

Gil wrote:Way to hijack/derail a thread. OP was suggesting a way to make Keeps more intresting. You folks decide to refight the OF/NW wars yet again.

I would be willing to try any system that promises to move combat away from the amg->mmg grind. The OPs idea is interesting.

The problem is that OF Keep sieges are awful, so any system that attempts to focus the spotlight of RvR on Keep taking will have a fundamental flaw:

Sieges in OF are tedious and frustrating because the designs of OF Keeps are so terrible. Therefore any system that promotes this activity will also lead to tedium and frustration.

Seyha wrote:Sieges in OF are tedious and frustrating because the designs of OF Keeps are so terrible. Therefore any system that promotes this activity will also lead to tedium and frustration.

Now you're just drawing the wrong conclusions from your own opinion tbh. I agree that there's a point in saying the OF keepdesign is inferior to the NF one when looking at it from a practical point of view.

However saying that therefore the fights in and around those keeps can't be fun just isn't correct.



Basicly you're trying to depict OF and all its aspects as something much worser than it actually is simply because YOU don't like it. I'm not saying none of your arguments make sense, just pointing out your exaggeration.

Won't happen. Too custom.

Bring back corpse summoners :>

edit:

I'm making a new thread. Apologies to the OP for the derail

Budikah wrote:

Rector wrote:No way back now.

Because PC coding is about the same as sculpting out of granite? Amirite?

Because staff started to go on the classic path and will walk it to the end.

Without reading other feedback, the 1st negative I can think of is the dime a dozen guilds, such as my own. We would easily invite the ire of the rest of the realm by not having even the people to fill 1/3 a group. Well, actually we would fill 37.5% of a group.

Vercinge wrote:Without reading other feedback, the 1st negative I can think of is the dime a dozen guilds, such as my own. We would easily invite the ire of the rest of the realm by not having even the people to fill 1/3 a group. Well, actually we would fill 37.5% of a group.

You could imagine a 10mn timer before re-using the tp for the same group, then it starts to be useless to organize it instead of using the horse route or the official tp.
It must be adjusted to give an advantage to defend keeps without tp all the realm to zerg the ennemies.
We are a small guild too and running at 3 all the maps to defend our keeps attacked by 6 ennemies is most of times lost in advance. So that we defend it once over 10 times I would say and it really a pity.
Especially for keeps specialist as we are!!!
See Hall of Fame for that!!

Rector wrote:

Rector wrote:No way back now.

Because staff started to go on the classic path and will walk it to the end.

Hope it will not be the case
Having a thread which is "classic game" means refusing live bad direction like ML or Artefacts or CL. For me it clearly does not mean copy/paste live from beginning to just before ToA release.
It would be a huge error.
There is a lot specific patch version before ToA that could be useless here (i.e. all the ones done to balance realms live imbalances)
There is a lot of specific patch version after ToA that could be usefull here (i.e. the ones for class balance)
Hope Uthgard GM's agree with that point because it is a key one for he server I believe