When you consider what a ranger gets, its invalid to consider his buffs as an extra bonus, because a ranger like any class that gains a skill by specing, gets it to balance there class with others. It would be like saying a assasin is balanced without there poisions, but with it, it adds extra above balanced, which isnt true. A assasin vs a self buffers, uses there str/con debuff to drop there dmg and health, which makes up for there lower stats, if we didnt consider liquid buffing. As i have alrdy tested on live, self buffs are part of the classes balance, without them they are below balance.

Now yes a archer can get PD, but if you want something just like that, use Toughness, it can be as good as PD. And a ranger can get thoughness and PD, but it does cost, so if they just get PD5 and no toughness, just get Thoughness 5, that is almost equal to PD5, depending on your current health.

And my celt ranger with 39+14 pierc, 42 PF normaly only does about 90-130 dmg, i have never done 175 something dmg, unless they have crap armor or something like that, vs an assasin. You may get close to that with blades, if they do not Str/con debuff you and you use a str/con pot .

If you have trouble vs a ranger on your assasin, try getting VIPer 3, Lifebane and a charged DoT of diff dmg type, that seems popular these days. I see some assasins come out PA, VIPER3 them and charge dot, then run away and win, and they think that is far, but a ranger with limited melee abilties is considered OP. What you need to do is get out of the BG and play at 50, you can not compared BG to lvl 50, since game play changes alot, and also consider a better spec and choice of RAs. And except that just because you maybe an assasin, doesnt mean you should allwes win.

Be happy that Archers cant share poisons from a assasin like they can on live, but yet you can get buffs that the archer has to spec for. YES YES they can get other buffs too, but since not all buffs are considered equal for each class, it does come out to nerf the effect of self buffs for those classes that get self buffing. To make things fair, poisons should be allowed to be shared and since visables are less likely to run into fallow assains to get poisons for there weapons, its mostly going to be the archer that has them, but to prevent poison bots, they choose to nerf a feature that still is implmented on live.

What styles do SB use? what style have you used vangonaj? what spec r the sbs...what spec do you have vangonaj..on Syuveil with my berseker using crush dmg i managed to get max 140(-100) mainh using doublefrost style .

Eclipsed..toughnes its 1 thing PD is another, if u get PD5 i will hit u with 24% less dmg from a total of 1400 HP or how much a ranger has? thats 350 hp that i dont take it, toughnes 5 is 400 hp added ..both affect the toon in diferent ways.. sometimes would be good to have more hp..sometimes would be better to have 50% melee resist instead of 26%.

They are tough but not OP .

Eclipsed wrote:And my celt ranger with 39+14 pierc, 42 PF normaly only does about 90-130 dmg, i have never done 175 something dmg, unless they have crap armor or something like that, vs an assasin. You may get close to that with blades, if they do not Str/con debuff you and you use a str/con pot .

What weapon are you using? I remember with perfect clarity getting hit by Syuviel for 175 from his main-hand. It was from a positional style, though, so high growth. Most of his main-hand hits are between 135 and 150. He swings at close to cap speed with CD.

By the way, I'm not suggesting a Ranger nerf.

And I fail to see how Rangers with DoT poison and Str/con debuff on their weapons would be fair for anyone.

in what situation would more phyiscal resist be better then more HP.

Ranger with 1200 hp with 26% resists

PD5 (28% tier 2) = 252 extra HP vs Melee only

Tough5 (400 hp) = 400 extra HP vs all dmg + IP adds more HP

So how is PD5 in any situation better, it only works vs melee and its tier two, so your resists reduce its value , which in this situation that extra 28% , really equals only 21%. And Toughness 5 in this situation = 33.33% resist , when comparing to PD5. So anyone that thinks PD5 is better , isnt considering how the game works. For PD5 to equal 400 extra HP vs melee, you would have to have 1900 HP to equal 399 extra HP.

Seyha wrote:

Eclipsed wrote:And my celt ranger with 39+14 pierc, 42 PF normaly only does about 90-130 dmg, i have never done 175 something dmg, unless they have crap armor or something like that, vs an assasin. You may get close to that with blades, if they do not Str/con debuff you and you use a str/con pot .

What weapon are you using? I remember with perfect clarity getting hit by Syuviel for 175 from his main-hand. It was from a positional style, though, so high growth. Most of his main-hand hits are between 135 and 150. He swings at close to cap speed with CD.

By the way, I'm not suggesting a Ranger nerf.

And I fail to see how Rangers with DoT poison and Str/con debuff on their weapons would be fair for anyone.

Well i got a 3.9 spd piercer and using dimondback, which is ,88 delv. The dmg varies, but normaly a max of 130 down to 90 dmg.

And it maybe not fair if anyone has poisons other then assasins, but it is that way on live, and that is the exact same aguement i got about giving buffs to non self buffing classes like assasins.

Glacius wrote:What styles do SB use? what style have you used vangonaj? what spec r the sbs...what spec do you have vangonaj..on Syuveil with my berseker using crush dmg i managed to get max 140(-100) mainh using doublefrost style .

140(-100) is 240 damage but he resists 100. I do 120-150 damage and this is 60(-60) and 75(-75). Whit aurora borealis i can do 200- 210 damage. I never use double frost. And my sb is rr8l4 and is shadowzerker.

Eclipsed wrote:in what situation would more phyiscal resist be better then more HP.

Ranger with 1200 hp with 26% resists

PD5 (28% tier 2) = 252 extra HP vs Melee only

Tough5 (400 hp) = 400 extra HP vs all dmg + IP adds more HP

So how is PD5 in any situation better, it only works vs melee and its tier two, so your resists reduce its value , which in this situation that extra 28% , really equals only 21%. And Toughness 5 in this situation = 33.33% resist , when comparing to PD5. So anyone that thinks PD5 is better , isnt considering how the game works. For PD5 to equal 400 extra HP vs melee, you would have to have 1900 HP to equal 399 extra HP.

True ..yet i ll give you 2 examples:
- When u are already hit cause u ve fought some1 and u got like 1000 hp left , if i atack you and u dont have PD u r dead in 4 hits (asuming i make 250 dmg) if u got pd5 i ll have to make like 8 hits to kill you ..u can have health pool 2000..if u got 1000 hp toughnes wount help ya.
- When you are bufed i believe you get to have like u said 1900 hp aye? shar rangers should..and its beter to protect 1900 hp pool that u gained from bufs too with 26/28% melee resists then to have 400 hp plus.
Its true that having more hps from toughnes its good cause u r oke VS DD and poisons also..

vangonaj wrote:

Glacius wrote:What styles do SB use? what style have you used vangonaj? what spec r the sbs...what spec do you have vangonaj..on Syuveil with my berseker using crush dmg i managed to get max 140(-100) mainh using doublefrost style .

140(-100) is 240 damage but he resists 100. I do 120-150 damage and this is 60(-60) and 75(-75). Whit aurora borealis i can do 200- 210 damage. I never use double frost. And my sb is rr8l4 and is shadowzerker.

If u dont use doublefrost as anytimer what style do you use as anytimer? i m curious..? and what spec u have ? how much in Laxe and how much in axe/.

Toubness and aug con are unical way vs viper, if you have not remedi or purge.

Your situations dont add up, if a ranger is dmged to 1000 hp left and gets attacked, yes that PD5 would apply to that, but if you had Though 5 instead, you would of had 1400hp instead, which would equal more still. You where comparing someone with PD5 vs someone without PD5 and no thoughness 5 or at least both players got hit down to 1000hp, which the one with though 5 had gotten hit more then the other, so its not an equal comparison.

And for a ranger that is fully buffed with con and str/con in a solo situation, will not get to 1900 HP, since they only get 3.6 HP per con and with 20 base con pot + 56 str/con charge, that would only give you 273 extra HP, and for example a celt has 1282 HP , so + buffs only = 1555 HP
which PD5 only = like 300 HP, so still Thoughness is better. Unless we are talking about in a grp with a buffer, which isnt common for a stealther.

agree

above 1500 HPs, PD will have a slight advantage against melee at equal levels. The best defense for the points would then be to have some of both PD and toughness.

Lets say you have 1600 HP, 26% melee resists

PD1 ( 2%) ( 1.5% after tier1) = 24 HP
PD2 ( 5%) ( 3.7% after tier1) = 59 HP
PD3 (12%) ( 8.8% after tier1) = 140 HP
PD4 (19%) ( 14% after tier1) = 224 HP
PD5 (28%) ( 21% after tier1) = 336 HP

TH1 ( 25 HP) = 1.5% of 1600
TH2 ( 75 HP) = 4.7% of 1600
TH3 (150 HP) = 9.4% of 1600
TH4 (250 HP) = 15.6% of 1600
TH5 (400 HP) = 25% of 1600

So as you can see, even with 1600 HP , thoughness at rank 2-5 is still higher then PD 2-5, exept thoughness helps out IP and absorbing all dmg types.

Now will PD3 + TH3 = more then going for TH4 at same point cost.

PD3 + TH3 = 290 HP or 18% of 1600

vs

PD4 = 224 HP or 14% of 1600
TH4 = 250 HP or 15.6% of 1600

So compineing these RAs for those who can get both, will gain a little more, if they are smart enough to relise this, but at the cost of only half of that effects all dmg type and helps IP, so its not 100% better, but only in melee it would be , not counting IP bonus for TH4.

so the best choice maybe would be though 4 and pd4 instead one of em on 5

Way back when I was still playing a MUD, my first char was a warrior. One of his advantages over other classes was his massive hitpoints. I still remember very well how much I hated this advantage every time I had to sit down after a fight and wait for a massive amount of time for my advantage to regenerate.

So the first point where PD is superior is when it comes to regging up to full again. The second point comes up when healing is involved. Heal yourself for 100 point with toughness5 means your enemy will have to do 100 damage more. With PD, these additional HPs are protected by PD resists too, meaning the enemy needs to do more damage to negate them. This is most noticable on lifetapping classes, but can already make a difference with healing potions, charges and procs too.

Well going with PD 4 and Thoughness 4 will cost you 40 RA pts, while PD5 or Though 5 will only cost 34 pts. So its best to look at a builder and see what comes out best.

And for the other reply, yes a warrior with alot of HP will take longer to regen, but this is the same thing. Lets say you have 1900 HP with PD 5 and another guy has 2300 with Though 5. Now lets say after the same fight, both had taken the same number of hits , and everything the same, here is what would of turned out.

2300 HP with Though 5 = 1500 dmg taken, 800 HP left (34.8% left)
1900 HP with PD 5 = 1185 (-315) taken, 715 HP left (37% left)

So in this situation both lose about the same % of total HP, but what if they get attacked right away, so they use IP 2 which is 50%, how will this effect each.

50% of 1900 HP = 950 HP + PD5 (21% after tier1) = 1150 HP
50% of 2300 HP = 1150 HP

So the effects of IP2 is the same, but the enemy that attacked you is an assasin or someone will magical dmg, which those attacks are not effected by PD so in the end, Though 5 comes out on top.