@Feelit was not called PD
---------
Avoid Pain (unique) -- gives you a melee damage absorption boost for 60 seconds, depending on level, every 15 minutes. One of the few timer-based abilities I would actually consider, but I have no direct experience with ability. However, since our absorption starts so low (10% for leather), you would have to max this out in order for it to have a noticeable effect -- which is really, really expensive. I recommend against this ability. Requires Aug Con 3. This is a unique ability, but the Warden Bladeturn is more effective and fills the same role. Also, enhancing your Evade gives a better return at all levels. UPDATE: Two of my fellow Nightshades have tested this ability. They recommend at least level 2 of the ability to see a noticeable effect, and the ability does help somewhat.
----------
from: http://strategy.guardiansofvalor.com/St ... eGuide.asp

found an old NS guide

Nightshades had it from long time and when Doac plaers raised on experience, all NS'es was running Avoid Pain. Ps: NS's was the only assassin that can access to it

i have lose some time on search on Daoc patch notes for see when was implemented (really don't remember, but not from the start of daoc, i am pretty sure of this) and when was canceled (think when Mytich give remedy and viper to nightshades because, as i already said, ns's was performing very very bad till 1.70 patch ... around).

If u haven't never see a NS on old daoc times use Avoid Pain i really think that u, like maybe the 90% of forumers here that are talking about knowledge of old good classic Daoc, never played the daoc dev's SAY (repeat: SAY, because atm we are really far a lot) to want to emulate.

c u

ooops sry
i forgot about AP :-/ and didnt know NS could got access to it...

I found this link to an old RA calculator.

Old Frontiers Realm Ability Calculator circa 2003ish

I have to do some research, but if anyone could kindly point me to a location stating why it was decided that New Frontiers RAs was the best choice for a classic DAoC with Old Frontiers it would greatly expedite the research.

Thanks

rangers pwnt uth tonight !

And zerker with 2 hits^^

but ranger fartet an evildeathstrom flash !
















with pd 96!

i killed a melee 5L0 ranger without any RA and 50% life after the fight today... do i get nerfed now?

i mean they might be OP, but that just effects stealth war, not the rest of the game

Caldenfor wrote:I found this link to an old RA calculator.

Old Frontiers Realm Ability Calculator circa 2003ish

I have to do some research, but if anyone could kindly point me to a location stating why it was decided that New Frontiers RAs was the best choice for a classic DAoC with Old Frontiers it would greatly expedite the research.

Thanks

That one isn't complete, use this instead.

Feelit wrote:ooops sry
i forgot about AP :-/ and didnt know NS could got access to it...

NS got access it after getting wtf pwned all day from bugged OP sb's (i was one of this and good inf class (we can talk if u want Infs always be, for me, best assassin/stealther on daoc, every server, every patch ... than Uthgard ...).

Think that, even if AP, i remember my shadowzerk kill NS very very easly, maybe need 6 anytime swing than 4/5, but they was going to die anyway.

things start to change for NS after Myth give they viper/remedy (this was planned to be only NS specifics ra's). I don't remember what was give first, maybe viper, but i remember really clear the QQ when remedy got implemented (was a time where they give a specific ra to only stealther, remember on Sb the ability to run fast even if hidden ... lol ... very useful ^_^).

on this time, Infs had Vanish as unique class ability.

anyway we are talking of old GOOD (yeah, good!!) days.

p.s. for Ronian and all who talk about rangers:
on this times, rangers was basically free rp's for infs/sb's on melee.
And was a pain from range/on small grp's thanks to bow.
Rangers was going around near amg only if camo up and can only think to melee an assassin (with camo up, is clear, because if no up they get 90% times a PA on face) if IP was up.

sometimes, after Sb's fix, i got killed from a melee ranger thx to his ra's (purge/ip up) but mostly times, ip didn't save they.

this is how daoc was at old classic days, archers was archers, and assassins, was assassins.

here ... mmm ... there is something wrong ...

want talk about hp's too:

u said a luri ranger have 12xx hp's
well, u know how many hp's have my briton inf? all capped and sc'ed? (75 con 200hp's bonus).
well, i have total of 1249 hp's (no ra's on hp's or con)
u know how mutch hp's have infs after toa and with all overcap?
around 1600.

so, sorry again, hp's is not the answer of your PD passive ra.

again, and again:

check WS, i am pretty sure rangers are on the same ws table as BM's (dev's can just try it editing a 50 ranger and giving him same str of a BM and see how perform on damage).
This, maybe, will can explain why i get 4/5 shotted from a ranger, really similar to fight a BM.
On my opinion, maybe, this can give an answer to my other question about the impossible evade rate i have against rangers (basically they seem to evade like me, or maybe a bit more lol).
(check skalds too, to me they seem to hit like a truck ... my old Skald (first char have ever made on daoc) was doing dps only with dd's ^_^

and, pls, give all old things back

ra system
df on thrust alb
etc etc

will see what will change.

c u

sry for edit want to say last thing:

a lot of ppl say:

no only flame, give some solution ...

i think i am trying to give some solution, the WS/Factor damage can easly be tested from a dev edting a lvl 50 ranger done only for this test, and give back old things is really easy.
after this, test, and see what happen.

what i really can't how to prove, or test, is the damn gimp damage of 2h/pole/celtic spear.
i only can say that, here, is BY FAR gimped, and when i say BY FAR i can assure i am thinking about 30/40/50% less than what should be.

again exemple:
armsman, was going to 3trhisoft my sb (damage on leather around 600/swing (is clear, buff buffed). With Hero, same thing.

friars was BY FAR doing more damage, and was basically evading like infs/sb's (there was evade ra that at 2 will give cap on evade rate, 50% if i remember well).
Here friars make really poor damage and never evade against chars like skald that should be evaded every swing (low WS, low str, low weap specialisation etcetc against 315 dex evade 5 around 1300 ws).

Nobody plays friars in end rvr atm. so y cant talk about poor dmg. In NF Uth time there were a lot of solo friars rr5+ and they pwned every melee class;)
But with this OF setting they wont survive coming to amg and nobody want them in a grp-.-

Feelit wrote:

Celad wrote:Came on Feelit, are you telling us that all (because every 4Lx ranger can now easy kill every other stealthers) rangers are proh players (just look at the herald for an idea of the lwrp they made) while shadowblades, infi, scouts and hunters players are just all noobs (because they can be easy killed by every 4Lx ranger)?

as a 4l ranger ,.. you dont do *easy kills* ,.. once reached rank5/6 ,.. yes,...

again i didnt play my ranger for like 4 months ,.. and im not going to play it again , cause im just having too much fun in group rvr atm.. so i dont care about a possible ranger nerf....
but i care about peopel are fed up about other people QQing about rangers( as i am one of it) + i/we ve alredy adviced specific people about how to stop their QQ...

and yes RANGERS ARE EASYMODE
but if you suggest you can win fights against Rangers(easymode chars) due to playing a *non-easymode char* a lazy way ,.. you will keep losing ,..

on my ranger i ve lost against:
- healers (had absolutly no chance vs celican, he didnt even had to use a single instant; he simply outdmged me)
- friars (no chance at all vs a friar on same RR)
- warriors (Orihiime when he was even 1 rank lower)
- infis (even got killed by lower RRs infis)

Thats DAOC!!! ,... get over it that there are classes that can kill other classes more easily ,..

*every 4lx ranger can now easy kill every other stealther*
wow thats great ...lolololol
but what has changed? whats *NOW* different compared to the time bevore *NOW*
your post doesnt even include 1 solid argument... its all just ... blablabla

Maybe you forgot something: i play an hunter. It's not just blablabla: it is something i've seen every day, maybe in df on me, maybe just standing stealthed at amg and watching other soloers being blowed by rangers again and again.

For the people that have killed you, mh, let's see:
- Celican is an 11L2 healer, and one of the best player i've ever seen on this server...
- Friars? In the last three weeks of intense RvR (for me, in the spare times that my commitments allow) i see just one friar, one time, at amg in OG. Not such a threat with this numbers...
- Warrior... ok... it's really a shame that you with an achery based class can't kill (just sometimes, i've seen rangers killing easy -pd4/5 + ip2- good warriors too) in a melee solo the best heavy tank of the game.
- Infis: there are infis with I have no chance too with my hunter, but I don't think they are OP, because I know if i inc well, if I kite in the right way, maybe if I have a bit of luck, I can kill a lot of them. This is what I see at amg in OG. I've killed infis and NS without problems (IF all the IF in the previous sentence are on - and this is not everytime obviously). Dunno where you were killed by infis, but if it happened in amg in Emain, lol, maybe you die just because there were 5 black adders.

And now two word: as a camo stealther you can easy avoid all this class if you don't want to inc or you're RA are all off (exception for infis if you have camo down). The fact itself that you are telling me that rangers are not OP because this class can kill you sometimes it's enough for me to understand that you have no idea of what is a REAL RvR scenario for a not solo OP class. With my hunter i will never (N E V E R) try to inc an heavy tank because i know that i've no chance. No chance! It's different from saying that i sometimes can lose a fight with them. Maybe if the rr is low and if i have all RA up ecc ecc i can try, but i know that i've to play very good and i've to hope that my enemy is not so good. In every case i can't just critshot and stick spamming taunt styles or shield stun and melee only (like almost every ranger actually do with almost every class - and win).
The same is for your problems with Celican lol... if i see an 11L i will never try to kill him in solo... again the fact itself that you are talking about this claiming that this is a proof that rangers are not OP is simply ridiculous.

Feelit wrote:

Celad wrote:I NEVER see someone spamming in LFG in mid that he need an hunter to tank something... indeed i never see someone spamming in LFG that he need an hunter for pve purpouse...

I NEVER see someone spamming in LFG in hib that he needs a ranger to tank something ! indeed i never see someone spamming in LFG that he needs a Ranger for any PVE purposes!

BUT IF these rangers are asking ,... via /send xxx can i join as a PD x Ranger ,...
they might get an invite ,..
there s only difference between rangers n hunters ,... that the hunter styles are very very crappy (+just worse evade), and that most hunter are not pure melee spec , which makes them way less attractive for PVE raids.,...

Then you are not playing the same realm as Ronia? I was just answering him and the statement he wrote.
Again, have you ever played an hunter on uth? Do you know what you are talking about? I was full melee during my exp time and i can assure you that you can send or spam in lfg as a damned, but is very difficult that someone inv you for an exp group... just imagine if someone can inv you for tanking an HL or tajendi bossmobs.

Feelit wrote:

Celad wrote:Let all use AF buffs and easy kill all the OP rangers my fellows!!
Who is the children here?

Due to repeating a claim again and again people wont start to believe you,...AHAHAHAHAHAHA
hahahahahah AHAHA ahahah *whos the child* - maybe bring up some arguments
- note- arguments =l= whine !

AF selbuff > af charge - Reinforced amor > leather amor - dex quick selfbuff > dex quick charge .. even WITH same Value !!

it is true that most rangers didnt even spec much PD ,.. and if they did .. imo they chose the wrong RAs ,... or are high RR

You are so funny man. When i spam laugh, when i joke like in this quote:

Celad wrote:Uh and about Ronia's last post: my mom told me that she think Scout is better than ranger, this is a proof too that rangers are not OP so please stop this discussion.

i'm not trying to provide you arguments, i'm just trying to show you (maybe in the wrong way) how stupid are your post (you, Ronia, Eclipsed, ecc...) when you try to defend your class. Look at the Ronia post which i refer i the quote... come on: ranger are not OP because a friend of mine say that NS are better?

And again: stop telling me something that i know! All the things that you are trying to explain to me (AF, armor resist, selfbuffs and charges), all your tricks to be a ranger killer... i know them, otherwise i could never play a class like mine and claim to survive, but i can assure you that they are not enough for killing rangers atm on uth. I've killed a couple of ranger: but probably the was completely noob, or just in rb-time, or maybe semi afk... actually you need luck to kill a ranger with an hunter on uth.

Feelit wrote:

Celad wrote:You are really stupid man. I ALWAYS go with AF buff on, do you know? i'm an hunter and i have self AF buff. And all the SB i know always roam with charges of AF on. I was just kidding you.

EDIT: oh... and another thing: how can i play my class to it's full potential if my class is incomplete? We're not all rangers mate.

all i ve said is aiming on the "ranger vs. Sb" ,.. i totally agree rangers > hunters .... since hunters styles are just very very baaad , which is livelike ! (patch)

Sorry for you that stealthers are not only sb and infis, but i can assure you that hunter here are not live-like, because archery itself is not classic live-like and because there are a lot of bug affecting this specific class.
Take a look here: http://www.uthgard-server.net/modules.p ... ic&t=17699


And finally:

Feelit wrote:complaining rangers are OP doesnt help you in any form ,. you should actually know after seeing your 10th whine topic got closed ....
and ,... im defending rangers cause im thinking you should learn to play your class ,.. and its not because i play a ranger ,..

Again the only thing you're writing is: ranger are not OP, learn to play your class and you will kill them with no problem. You continue to say that we are just QQing without provide any evidence, but you?
Aren't you just spamming: learn to play... blablabla... rangers are not OP because NS are better... blablabla... use AF, use charges (like if someone actually go RvR solo without buffs... never see one)... blablabla... a warrior sometimes can kill me in solo and this is a proof that rangers are not OP... blablabla...

Feelit wrote:http://herald.uthgard-server.net/herald.php?view=stats&p1=player&p2=Player&p3=DESC&p5=Player&p6=Gonna
without my Str/con charge i wont even think about playing it again

In a REAL classic live-like server, as we have no SI zones, you and your realm should not have s/c charges, but hibs QQ and whine -without proof or logical arguments, and staff this time didn't just answer "learn to live with classic daoc"-. Now mids have to farm 1000000000000 times Churiel and Legion to get a s/c charges, while in a REAL classic live-like without SI zones server a simple red mob in malmo drop it. Maybe this is one of the factor for the unbalance in the solo war (charges affect mostly solo rvr). In Mythic intention hibs have not s/c charges before SI. Why? I dunno, but now that with taj2 and churiel drops other realms have the possibility to drop their s/c charges too, it will be good to rehave s/c charges in mid on the right mob. A red mob. Easy farmable. You don't need one (churiel) or two (legion) fg for it.

------------------------

You can continue to ask for proof, but you didn't see that in this topic a lot of proof has been posted.
Just take a look in the bugreport zone (i wonder if you ever) and you will see that actually rangers can take advantage from a lot of bugs in melee and have no bugs to fight with because rangers are an archer class that work pretty good without using bow at all and (again) archery is bugged like hell here.

Friars are very uncommon... but i will play mine again after the world cup! they are ungroupable so must solo with no speed/stealth and hence die alot 2v1 and more, some days i would die many times to groups/smallgroups/stealthgroups before i found a 1v1 fight. (i would like to thank any group that has left me alive! though)

i do agree that WS issues seem a bit weird but thats based on my memory of 5+years ago, but back then before buffbots, LA nerf. The difference could be that any skald/ns/ranger/sb you fight in frontiers will have better +skills/SCed/maxed weapon stat or even that they have buffcharges on!

So they wouldnt have like 950 WS vs 1400+(my friar) they would have more. i have been evaded by an SB 5 times in a row once, which is very unlucky even if they have 50% evade. but my WS should be superior so that it lowers their evade if i am right.

950 is my guess for a norse skald?? that about right?
what is typical ranger or SB WS?

@Celad

Take a deep breath and read what this thread is about? Ahhh, its: Why do you think the Ranger is OP ?

Got it dude? It´s not up to rangers to proove their not OP!

Still voting for close this

rangers are not oped

2 good players on 1 vs and about the same Rrank will have even battles...

or ask runis


eclipsed good idea but just became another QQ thread cause most of the stealth zerg players get owned in emain when the pro ranger players get bored of fighting 5 vs 1

if there was not a way to side strafe, most rangers would be pretty gimp on blades spec

(personal note: i did played 3 different rangers in the server and a sb so i know whats the real issue)

Snigel wrote:@Celad

Take a deep breath and read what this thread is about? Ahhh, its: Why do you think the Ranger is OP ?

Got it dude? It´s not up to rangers to proove their not OP!

Still voting for close this

I never wrote that rangers have to proove they are not OP in this thread, I just laugh when they try to do this.
I was just answering to Feelit, explaining what i mean in my previous posts.
So next time take a deep breath and read the whole thread.