Dead RvR
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I am pretty sure that you can quote where I told people to leave, right? 
Now if there was no stupid z0mfg-R0xx0r-ololol-mentality there would be nothing to magnify.  |
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+1 |
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Even random invited people still have to wait more with OF to have fun. And that still doesn't solve the solo/smallman problem. Oh I'm sorry, there isn't even a problem now because it's completely dead. |
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if nymeros and zarkor would leave game&forum the whine should be reduced to maybe... 5%?
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If you would actually *read* instead of trying to make us the bad guys and thus shift attention from the problem you would see many people on the forums also see the problems with OF.
Or here's an even better idea: Let's have a new poll. |
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no, i cant read the same text walls of drama QQ for 10 times sry
there is no problem with rvr, every day groups/small groups and solos are running around in emain to every time, dont know in which daoc world you live... |
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I always read staff, do this staff do that without thinking of the whole concept.
Like nixian said there is much which can be done by every individual player! Complaining about 8 min timer (thought it was already reduced to 4min) .... it's only 8min if you just missed the porter - you have an average waiting time of 4 (or 2 with 4min). Don't be pessimistic! Uthgard till 2003!
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Imo(and i guess i dont stand alone with it) you should just inofficially declare zones for low-rr and zones for high-rr (like emain for high and odins/hadrians for low). that way people wont always get angry about high-rr players tearing them apart and others might think "hey, now i could really stand a chance in lvl50-RvR".
OC i know that not all people will respect the rr-splitting (actually i think they dont even have to, but maybe keep it at a reasonable level), but im pretty sure it would help. also i dont see that this would ONLY split RvR-population, because people dont log instantly and others will join the fight. Of course this is just a piece of the whole, but nevertheless i guess it should be tried out. any objections? |
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True. However, that's not gonna cut it if it's one-sided. In fact it's gonna work the opposite way if it's one-sided, since you will only meet groups that are double your strength if not more while putting yourself in a vulnerable situation in the hope your enemies will do the same. It's either everyone or no-one, but I don't see the first one happen anywhere soon. :  |
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only if you kep insiting on 8 mann rvr is the only way to play. in that case you DO reduce your potential by inviting random ppl. but thats not the point^^ the point is to get everyone into rvr that is willing to go and not limit it to a specific group of people. thereby increasing the total numbers you field. true, 8 random rr1-5 cant compete with a rr6+ sg. but 16 random rr1-5 can give the same rr6+ sg a run for their money. the high RR SGs still will be powerful and they still will win most of the fights, even outnumbered two to one. but at least there is a small chance for the low rrs to actually get some rp. and if they cant, the sg will just get double the rp. i dont really see adding as an issue. for me althought its been long ago it was a common sight seeing SGs just run over one group after the other and only barely being stopped by 4 pugs attacking them at once. and even in those circumstances the SGs still wiped the bigger part of the pug zerg. you know, even a perfectly balanced protos army can be wiped out if you just throw enough zerglings at them^^ |
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Indeed, the RvR population cant be healthy if zerging is shunned. You cant support many individual 8 man grps and avoid zerging/adding at the same time, hence some complain about it in broad and forums and noone will hit RvR anymore. If thats the way some elitists want to play DAoC and frontiers they rather should implement some kind of duel instance area limited to 2 grps...
Zerging will automatically lead to giving OF activity more relevance, in getting keeps and relics cause many players are already there. No long broad planning of raids over broad, etc. I really have to admit community spirit had been better on this server. The care for your self attitude and keep anything private to guilds/alliances even extends on the supply question, finding crafters for all the stuff... If its even hard to find a greedy crafter, so dont ask for participating RvR grp... |
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BG's =
Smaller and more focused RvR tword the middle of the zone. Time it takes to get to action isnt very long Lower BGs have enemys with less skills and ablities making grps more flexiable and less demanding for selective grping. NF w/agramon = Larger RvR with agramon as main BG, with half Emain, Hadrian and odin being used, since you can port to closest keep to RvR at one point, which did change to porting to agramon. Time to action about the same as BG's, because agramon was basicly a BG. OF = Huge, with 4 Zones in each realm, with only one zone in each as hot spots, but emain choosen as primary and mostly the only used zone, because 2 benifit from porting and one does. Long time to get to action for all, min of 7min Multi Zones which can split up action 2 hot spots in emain, making it easy to predict action , making it unsafe for soloers and to predicatable for grps. I believe the issues is that OF is just too big, its like setting up Braemar, Wilton and Thid as all lvl 50 RvR zones, which just split up the action, and in the long run, only one of the BG would be used and the others would be useless. And with Emain being so dull, all you need to do is run between gates or just sit at one, and put up a sign asking for an enemy, because there will be one soon, most likely a big or small grp to kill soloers or big grps to kill small grps, which just makes rvr unfun. We want a classic feel, but to get that all we need is the OF map, not the total play style. We do not have the population, and i mean population in RvR to achive a enjoyable RvR in OF. We need to cut to 1 realms OF zone. I bet anything if we did what i had suggested, i bet in time action would pick up and it would be enjoyable. For all. All we have right now is Mids and ALbs go afk waiting for there port, which is 8min or less, while hibs are required to run from border for 7min. We have a amazing number of zones, 12, which only 1 is being used and 2 are being used for running threw. If we where on NF still, it would be like all realms running from boarder keeps to agramon, on foot, No porting , and no boats. That would be changed right away, but yet on OF, because its only one realm that is punished, and other two who can deal with a 8min AFK, there is no change. If you want a classic feel, use OF MAP, but that is all. Make the server also fun to play on. |
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In my opinon this is something id like to try out. With OF being in one realms OF zones, with Hib PK being the boarder keep in CG, ALbs starting in MC to the right of the boarder keep, which will have de-activated doors and guards to prevent both realms from gaining access/shortcut. Also a keep or camp would have to be made for alb for safty. And mids will be in there normal spot in emain. This would give all 3 realms the same barden to run to the focused zone for RvR, which i believe would be Brefine, because all 3 realms would have to spend equal amount of time getting to it, that is where hotspots and most RvR developes. Currently its only in emain because 2 of 3 realms have the fasted RvR distance to emain gates. The orienge blocks are the keeps, and because there is 4 in the focused RvR zone, i believe that would pick up those keep action. Also adding a 5% RP bonus to each of the 4 keeps in the center, would greatly increase the fighting over those keeps. Or what ever bonus. Now some are concerned about hotspots, because this isnt a mindless zone like emain, where predictable fights are at gates. But dont fear, since mobs will have to be reworked to allow effective PvE for all 3 realms in this setup, mobs could be setup to keep most players on the roads, not everywhere , but some areas, which would develope into hot spots. And after awhile and people learn the lands, there will be hotspots that develope. Not only can you search around Brefine for action, but you can take keeps, or go to other zones, like a hib go into MC or emain to suprise a small grp or soloers, as they run to Brefine. You cant do that currently on are current setup very well, only hib has to run far enough, and alb and mids port to a dangerus zone, they will be ready, when hibs have to run threw 2 dead zones to action, you can easly be jumped, by someone smart enough that knows the roads people use. But with my setup, all realms have the same oppertonities. This isnt how classic was, but its still OF, its still OLD keeps, and it would be more balanced and enjoyable for full grps, small grps and soloers. But that is what i believe, many have there own idea of what works. Im not saying myn is currect, but its just something id like to see on here, at least tested out. If no other solutions work out. |
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To avoid "walls of text" for all those too lazy or disrespectful enough to not read people's comments to their completion, ill break my original post up into two seperate posts :
1. dealing with community 2. dealing with encouraging more rvr from regular people Dealing with the community: Ive said it before and ill say it again: If you want to solve the community problem then get a handle on the cross realming issue. In my opinion if this crossrealming problem gets a leash put on it, see this thread: http://uthgard-server.net/modules.php?n ... ic&t=14685 then you'll eventually see a lot more consistancy between rvr. It will put the breaks on this this guild vs guild and "dont add my fight" mentality between realm members and the other enemy. You will have people sticking to their own realms instead of flip flopping when they are bored or if they get rolled by 'zergs.' They'll realize that if they want to play on the server that they have to stick to one side or another and deal with it. They wont have the option of logging to their alb/mid alts to kill the "adders" after getting mad due to their realm members jumping in on a fight. If that is too much for them and makes them want to log out or leave the server then good riddance in my opinion. Furthermore if you remove the ability to flipflop between realms you will make it less likely that people will be forming "friendships" with people in different realms. Being too buddy buddy with people that play in different realms is a CONFLICT of INterest. What i mean by 'friendships' in this context are the situations where people choose not to fight other people because they know them individually (since they routinely played with them before on the other realm) or in more extreme cases, they actually join teamspeak /irc or instant messaging to HELP them (i.e cross realm spy etc). If you remove teh ability for people to interact with one another regularly you make it so that these kinds of "friendships" are less likely to occur because (to use an example), how often is it that a Protestant christian American in the United States marries a muslim Arab in yemen? The more people that this server has who actually want to play the game as it was meant to be played (realm vs realm) as opposed to guild group vs guild group or friend vs friend then the better off this server will be. Arranged fights through irc etc or fights between people who are in the same guild but playing groups in a different realm (while all are in the same ts channel) is NOT rvr. |
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Part II.
Dealing with encouraging more rvr from Regular people Cougar said a good bit already, as did a few other people. This topic has been going on for years and ill just copy/paste stuff is aid over a year ago about this very same thing. I wont get into the "what level 50 players need" because that's another issue as well. I take the approach that if you make character progression more streamlined from the beginning of the character's life, then they will inevitably have more incentives to participate in level 50 rvr. Here's the thread: http://uthgard-server.net/modules.php?n ... highlight= Not that what i write about really matters but to contribute to the discussion, Here's what i said: The problems: 1. Leveling Experiencing to 50 is a drag, thus people get caught up in constant leveling and thus get caught up in the bgs because killing players is far more entertaining and rewarding than leveling. 2. Finding action Its relatively easy to find some quick action in a BG (no 8 minute run time to action zone if you're a hib. You just have to get on a pad and equip necklace). 3. Level 50 standards are too high and need some offsets- BG's dont have as strict requirements to play in them as opposed to lvl 50 zones. Its easier to gear up a BG character than a level 50 and you dont have to have specialized classes, realm ranks and abilities to have an enjoyable fight. Going out into the level 50 zones as a new char/guild is akin to suicide with all the high realm rank players out there in specialized setups. People have no incentives to get to 50 and go out there and mix it up with such bad odds stacked against them. Solutions: There are many but ill add my $1.00 I have 5 proposals and they all have some common themes: * Reward NOT using bgs * Reward NOT logging out of the game or staying in the bgs when you could get more benefit from staying in the game to continue character progression. * Reward using game mechanics that aren't commonly used (rvr keeps) Up till now the various schemes and methods for getting more casual people to rvr have been mainly "Change the zone" and "Add exp bonus in rvr areas." These themes have been replicated in one form or another over the years. ALL of these concepts have failed miserably as they dont address the underlying problems so i'll restate something i said earlier; "continuing to do the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is a definition of insanity" therefore i propose something a little different than what the staff seem to prefer doing on routine. I dont claim to be all knowing or all seeing but I think i've been around this server long enough to realize that just changing a map or adding massive bonuses to an rvr zone isnt sufficient to motivate people into rvring or getting their character progressed so that they will bother leaving the border keep. Adding bonuses to rvr zones and map changing is a failed concept and belongs in the stone age. What's needed are new ideas and visions that integrate and engage player character progression experiences instead of just dumping someone into the game world and say "ok you're here, good luck and see ya! Oh but wait i forgot to tell ya, if you want to get extra frustrated while leveling to 50, go to the rvr zones to level. We've got super bonuses there to tease you with to make sure your first weeks on the server are a living hell!" For those who are against the concept of "easy mode" There is a difference between earning your way to level 50 and competitive realm rank and just having free giveaways to boost you up. I do not propose free giveaways. What I propose are systems that let players choose their path (whether they want to progress the old tedious way for whatever masochistic reasons, or one which allows them to choose a more directed and themed approach to leveling and character progression. If players choose the directed approach (an objective being to reach 50 and actively participate in rvr), they are rewarded for doing so. I recommend doing all of the following: 1. Themed Adventure Leveling - Purpose: If the goal is to get people to level 50 to participate in rvr then empower them with something to look forward to except for pure grind fest on their own. Players should be given directions and rewards for choosing to progress in that direction. Description: Themed adventure leveling are simply tasks that people can take up on their own to expedite their leveling and NOT always tied to RVR Zones. These tasks would give bonuses (maybe 3-10x normal exp) if a player hunts certain creatures for a period of time (perhaps up to 4 hours) in addition to any bonuses they already have in the area. Available Tasks would be announced by the server through public broadcast and perhaps interacting with an npc. The public broadcast would serve to inform players of the current task at each hour and an npc in the capital city could be used for people who want to see what the current task is without waiting for the hourly broadcast. For example make server announcements that only people in a certain level range can see in broadcast that will direct them to hunt particular types of mobs at certain camp spots. An example would be level range 35-39 message: "The King's Messenger in Tir Na Nog announces: "Collared Gem Cutters in Coruscating Mine are attacking our citizens. Aid your realm by decreasing their population. You will gain much experience if you do this. You have 4 hours to complete this task." That way people level 35-39 would go into that zone/area to level up and obtain the bonus for that particular spot. These exp bonuses could rotate every few hours or some such and thus require some effort on the part of the player to form a group to actually go acquire the exp but at least people will have a goal. 2. Replace The Battle Ground System The current bg system is not "classic" and is actually counter productive to encouraging people to progress to 50 rvr. Example: Why level to 50 when you can level to 49.5 and be virtually as powerful as a level 50 but without having to go to the level 50 rvr zone? Remove braemer, wilton and thidranki BG's and replace them and their access ranges with what was on live around 1.65-1.69: Dun Abermenai - Levels 15-19 (125 realm point cap) Thidranki Faste - levels 20-24, Realm rank 1, Realm level up to 3 Dun Murdaigean - levels 25-29, Realm rank 1, Realm level up to 5 Caer Caledonia - levels 30-35, Realm rank 1, Realm level up to 9 3. Guided Character Progression Purpose: If people are 'guaranteed' to achieve something within a certain time frame or by finishing certain tasks then that may make the leveling process less monotonous and incentivise people to progress further along towards level 50 rvr and remain in it. Description: When someone reaches a level in which they are eligible to enter a bg, they can be prompted whether or not they wish to forgoe their ability to play in the bg. If they decide to do this, then they are given some no-trade items or rewards such as: 1. A suit of armor with good stats for their level range (a level 20 player opting out of thidranki would get a level 30 suit) 2. Experience Bonus Voucher (When used it acts as a multiplier bonus for a period of time to all exp gained) 3. Realm Point Bonus Voucher (When used it acts as a multiplier bonus for a period of time to all rp's earned) The items' purpose would be to help progress them the next stage of their character development. This concept is based around that which mythic used with the starting player items given to the /free level 20/30 characters. To prevent hoarding, or using these items in other bgs, it could be made so that certain limitations are placed on them. Such limitations for each item type would be: Armor Suits: Possessing any part of the suit will make you ineligible to port to any BG zone, some what like how the live game linked the ability to teleport to a zone only if you had a medallion. There would need to be a player inventory check to make sure they cannot unequip the items then zone and re-equip. The item would be no trade therefore they couldnt transfer it to another location and the only option would be to destroy it. If a person wanted to go to the next level bg, then they would have to destroy the suit. Experience point Voucher: The experience point voucher is a non tradeable item that can be used to earn bonus to experience points earned and stacks with all other available bonuses. The item can only be used within specific level ranges depending on which battle ground was forgone. Vouchers given at thidranki for example would only offer bonus to experience gain for levels 20-25. If a player wished to have further bonuses then they will have to forgo the BG experience of caledonia starting when they reach level 25 to use that voucher. Bonuses could be a multiplier anywhere from 5-10x normal experience. This would allow characters incentives to ignore bgs and to proceed on their track to level 50. The bonus would be in effect for a limited amount of time (perhaps a few weeks) after being used. Realm point Voucher: Realm Point Voucher is a non tradeable item that can be used to earn a bonus to realm points and can only be used if the character is level 50. The bonus would be in effect for a limited amount of time (perhaps a few weeks) after being used. The bonus for the realm point multiplier could be set to only work if the player is grouped with players of a certain realm rank or below. For example if an individual joins a group of players where no player has a rank higher than Realm Rank 6, then they would get the RP bonus. This would encourage new and lower realm ranked players to stick together to make use of the vouchers. This would allow new players an incentive to get to 50 and remain in rvr for an extended period of time and this would not punish high realm rank players because they still maintain their Realm Rank advantages. Ultimately, Lower realm ranked players would naturally congregate as there would be more of them out there seeking to utilize their vouchers and there would be less incentive to log out and do other things if they happened to get killed, thus the cycle of giving up so readily and logging out due to frustrations would be broken or at the least there would now be a pushback against that type of thinking if individuals have a reason to remain out there (the hope of getting that huge bonus if they happen to score some kills). 4. Guided Character Progression - Extended - Integrating RvR with Experience. Purpose: Mixing RvR with experience progression in a more productive manner would be to Include mythic patch 1.60 changes to allow experience gains outside of the BG's that are linked to rvr keep sieging. Taken from 1.60 patch notes: Description: Add an experience reward for 2 level ranges outside of the battleground. They are 35 to 40 and 40 to 45. In order to receive the experience reward you must take a merchant keep in an enemy frontier after it has been controled for at least 45 minutes. You must do this once for each level range. After taking the keep, if you meet the minimum realm points for that level range, you may go to the medal NPC in the capital cities and receive your Medal of Valor. Minimum Realm Level: 35-40 Realm level 2 rank 0 40-45 Realm level 2 rank 5 Once the medal is in a player's posession, it can be taken to the NPC in the capital cities that accepts the battleground medals. Again, a significant experience reward will be given. In order to receive the medal and hand the medal in for experience, you must be within the appropriate level range. The medals cannot be saved for use outside of the level ranges listed above, and you can only receive each medal and experience reward only once. My personal recommendation would be to offer a full level worth of experience for each keep taking in an enemy frontier and set this limited to only being able to do two per day. This would allow players up to two full levels a day and instigating rvr action in regions other than emain or hib frontier. People would have incentive to go hang around hadrians wall and odins gate for example. 5. Rewarding all current non realm rank 6 level 50 players Purpose: Encourage activity from lower realm ranked players in conjuncture with the above recommended actions that are directed towards new characters and their progression. Description: Offer 1 temporary realm point voucher for all non realm rank 6 realm rank 50 players at the same time that the previously mentioned concepts are implemented. This would encourage large numbers of players to begin playing with their lower realm ranked characters and reward them for having achieved level 50. This could have the potential for making players more active in rvr in order to make use of their vouchers while playing with new players. Last edited by Zippity on Jan 01, 2010 09:08, edited 1 time in total.
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