it would be nice when the stuff can say anything
but some people take the way say and see nothing and you get no proplems

holsten-knight wrote:

RonELuvv wrote:Please show me how you are going to test Trip or Grapple for tanks or the countless other RA's that are not on Live anymore.

This! And there are so many more RA's that no one can say for sure how they worked in detail...

Point-blank radius snare that reduces the movement of all enemies in the area by 30% for 12 seconds.

This looks pretty clear tbh. Of course you can totally get in your own way with this and be uber-anal about every detail, but as I said before, for the most part if should be possible to get a close approximation to what these RAs were like on live. If they are not, than you have two options: Wait for the players to prove you wrong (as they are doing now) or use some common sense and adjust them.

What you guys fail to see with this is that the RAs we have now are already complete nonsense because of missing ToA content and whatnot. It surely will be *a lot* harder to get that sorted out than to use some common sense with the old abilities - not to mention that this would turn Uthgard even more into a complete custom server that adheres to nothing but Blue's randomness.

i think we do know enough about the realm abilities. i guess you can take 80% of old ra's and adjust their values / timers and restrict them to certain classes. every mechanic is somehow reused in another way, it is not something completely new. and to remind you: NF ras dont work 100% either. so why do we argue against a 90% solution while playing with a 90% solution right now?

SIMPLY BECAUSE BLUE DONT WANT TO!

Lasastard wrote:

Point-blank radius snare that reduces the movement of all enemies in the area by 30% for 12 seconds.

This looks pretty clear tbh.

Effected by det? gives root immunity or not? Ignores root immunity? Maybe even clears immunty? Used when no target is hit or still rdy? Used when all targets that were hit are immune or still rdy? ...

Who can still answer this with a proof? And you are correct, this is even one of the more clear and easy to implement RA... there are a lot more complicated RA's.

I never that it was trivial, but that it is no harder than trying to force the NF RAs to work in a pseudo-classic environment. To stay with the example, you have a number of options, starting with old forum posts, internet archives, community, and finally the experience of coding a DAoC server for several years (as in Blue's case). If you take all this together, I am sure a sensible compromise in these somewhat unclear cases is possible.

when we will get ML's or old-ra?

Lasastard wrote:I never that it was trivial, but that it is no harder than trying to force the NF RAs to work in a pseudo-classic environment. To stay with the example, you have a number of options, starting with old forum posts, internet archives, community, and finally the experience of coding a DAoC server for several years (as in Blue's case). If you take all this together, I am sure a sensible compromise in these somewhat unclear cases is possible.

actually i think this will be a lot more difficult as one might think... i had trip and grapple at least to test them back then... but i can not tell how the immunity thing was handled anymore... all i have is a blurry suspicion. And there will be not a lot of forum posts or vids to prove anyhing. And this is a very important thing, it either makes the RA nearly useless or OP, if it also ignores det and resets the immunity.

I as warri would vote for the later of course, all suporter, caster etc. would vote for the opposite... now try to use common sense here

Why don´t the "we can´t test in details" minded people realize that RIGHT NOW we´re playing a setting that isn´t "detailed" to whatever DAoC was back in the days, too?

Btw, bow class player raising hands for old RAs

at least for me, the point is not "i'd like old ra's because better and bla bla bla"
for me, the point is what i say from 4 years, this MIX of things is stupid.

so, again, u can't go old ra's because u can't test it? > implement toa bonuses (like old Purga, that was fatanstic on rvr).
will be more easy, save all work on new ra's and can test everything on live (all bonus are still up to date)

... and/or stop this no sense 1.69 patch limit




this is the point, nothing else (from my point of view)



--------

people still don't get that 1.69 is only a rough patch-level, which the server is aimed at, while there's things (see downpatch section as well as accepted changes 1.70+ thread), which came later but are to be adopted still...

it seems that players want to be more stricton the 1.69-wall than the staff ever was...

Jezzmin wrote:people still don't get that 1.69 is only a rough patch-level, which the server is aimed at, while there's things (see downpatch section as well as accepted changes 1.70+ thread), which came later but are to be adopted still...

it seems that players want to be more stricton the 1.69-wall than the staff ever was...

No, the problem is that the staff has frequently used the argument of 'live like' to remove convenient features from the game and for all intents and purposes made it harder because of their classic goal. This was all fine as long as they actually stuck with that goal. With the decision to not do a proper classic server, the 1.69 goal is pretty much random and no longer the final OF patch on live servers and thus the best possible target to aim for. Most importantly, they are now committing to a pretty much unbalanceable setting because they will not allow ToA (or similar) content on the server. And again, balancing in itself is not the issue here, since one can argue that OF wasn't balanced either. The issue is that the server development turned from an ambitious goal to re-create the classic DAOC experience as closely as possible into 'Whatever pleases Blue' - and that is not only unfair to the community that voted on the roadmap, but also not going to end well in terms of game play. Let alone the 'classic' label, which is now becoming ridiculed.

i have to admit, you really have a point there...however, the only problem is imho that staff-decissions are not communicated well enough...usually there's no communication at all and things are done in secret until they appear in changelog...that's why i asked blue 4385093 times to make a thread with downpatch-issues, which he has finally done (empty yet, but hey, it's a start)

if people knew "ok in 3 months there's be a downpatch where X, Y and Z are removed" it'd be more acceptable imho...

and as for imbalance...i'd love to see old RAs as well, but imho it's just not feasible due to lack of information as well as time and testability...and I can understand that blue doesn't wanna customise nf RAs too much, cause that's very thin ice and mythic has already failed when trying to balance things....

I say implement them and watch the train wreck.... but first write down the names of those who are "pushing" for the change, and keep an eye out for the "Old RA's suck/dont work/arent working correctly" flames. If those pushers are the ones who are complaining, then swing the ban hammer (forum at least) and tell them they got what they wanted. This exact thing happened when Agramon was replaced by old frontiers. The same Agramon sucks whiners turned into the Old Frontiers sucks whiners. Common denominator??? Whiner=Whiner

Be careful though. Everyone knows the first thing that will come if someone is unhappy with their Old RA implementation. Blue will ask "Bugreport... make a toon on Pend and show us proof.... oh wait... you can't... so you will just have to deal with what we think is correct". At least currently, if you feel like there are problems you can make a report and prove or disprove current function.

Good so you are saying a proper classic server can't be done then. Won't argue with you there, if you want to apply strict rules for testing. So can I get NF then? No? But it can be tested and would be more appropriate for the RAs and the overal setting that the server actually represents (somewhere between 1.69 and 1.81). Also, did I mention that it is fully testable and whatnot? All seems a bit random now, doesn't it..