Nujao wrote:Last option: FOUS TA CAGOULE

i'm lovin it

Nujao wrote:Last option: FOUS TA CAGOULE and go Odins for us non-Zergers

I would like to mention here that the 8v8 situation on the server is improving pretty well (given Nerozerg isn´t out there)
and would like to thank DG for not adding us even once last night
thanks DG, we won´t add back ofc if you don´t add

Seems like only BIT and BR has to be convinced and the server is in the hand of decently fair 8v8ers ( Uth-opia )

BTW: what has happened to BA, they seem a lot less active these days than just a few weeks ago?
(that not being the reason for improvement of 8v8 situation, BA don´t add 8v8s as well^^)

Nujao wrote:I would like to mention here that the 8v8 situation on the server is improving pretty well (given Nerozerg isn´t out there)
and would like to thank DG for not adding us even once last night
thanks DG, we won´t add back ofc if you don´t add

Seems like only BIT and BR has to be convinced and the server is in the hand of decently fair 8v8ers ( Uth-opia )

Seems like I need to talk to the last remaining RvR players called BIT and BR at one point, to defeat the /hug gang
What happend to DG, Holsten you should start drinking more beer while playing, which leads to better RvR behavior such as adding I guess ^^
edit: kinda the same way of writing here by accident hehe, good old german englisch ;p

Really celteen if you love so much screwing people's fun, why don't you just form your own hibzerg instead of just telling BIT to form a mid one , then you would have your lovely zerg vs zerg and hopefully you'll stop ****** off people who don't wanna play that way.

I like all that talking without thinking...

In fact: Why did Mythic programmed DAoC that complex in case of skills, spells, abilities and a cap of 8 ppl for a grp?
If they wanted the people to zerg all day they wouldn't need all that, some dd and some heal and all is fine.

All that bulls hit about "elite" and "spirit" is simply a bad excuse for not having the determination to learn the game. Everyone is able to get involved, just learn from the experienced players, there are often people who take 1-2 newer people into their grps and give them advice what to do. There are enough tutorials and you can ask anyone about the game. Those who know about will give you advice, at least in the forum you get help.

So why run a zerg? The zerg was involved for the false reason to get RP. Since when collecting RP is the goal of the game? There is no reason to have high RR when you have skill and you get skill by converting your experience correctly into actions. If you are a tank and see the enemy caster is doing too much damage to your grp you know you shall target him first for example. The false idea that RP are the goal of DAoC made people become that disrespectful to their enemies. The goal of DAoC is fun and you get fun by messing with others and get better doing it. A kill has nothing special when you zerg someone down, if you kill someone in a fair fight or finally kill maybe 2 alone is what makes the RvR a good experience. If it 's just farming enemies and earn (realm)points for it then do us a favour and go to PvM zones with your toons and farm (experience)points, it 's quite the same but the respawn is better. There you can farm and zerg the whole day long, you learn nothing from it, you gain your reward points and you can do it whenever you want.
But for the few people who are willing to get experience with DAoC and get fun messing with enemies in (fair) fights (fight include that both sides have a nearly equal chance to win) then try to respect your enemies and treat them fair, the most will pay you back and it leads to a far better population in Emain when people know they can go there not to get just farmed down but a chance to get some fights.

Zerg can be fun, so if it is fun for people zerging let them zerg and deal with it. No matter of skill, you can be a good player and zerg as well It is not like you need any skill for Daoc, the only thing you need to do 8v8 are 8 people willing to spend their evenings on a more or less dayly basis, thats it. If you dont wont to commit to a game since you ve better stuff to do, you can zerg as long as you wont to and it does not make you a worse person/player. If 8v8 guys cant deal with it, qq and play WoW There you have your "fair" fights, and finally you ll realize that there are no fair fights in MMORPGs

That 's not what I was trying to say. Every kind of RvR can be fun, but just when you got equal opponents. With zerg it doesn't have to be 100% equal, but at least every party of people taking part shall have a chance and the fight shall last some time so everyone gets something from it. Didn't know that I have to explain it as well then, but every kind of RvR shall be respected. Solo, smallman, fullgroup, zerg, but against fair opponents and not the biggest party farms the rest, that 's not a way to get the most fun for the most people.

Llithium wrote:That 's not what I was trying to say. Every kind of RvR can be fun, but just when you got equal opponents. With zerg it doesn't have to be 100% equal, but at least every party of people taking part shall have a chance and the fight shall last some time so everyone gets something from it. Didn't know that I have to explain it as well then, but every kind of RvR shall be respected. Solo, smallman, fullgroup, zerg, but against fair opponents and not the biggest party farms the rest, that 's not a way to get the most fun for the most people.

Llithium is right , a descent fair fight isn't the fight with equal numbers !! It's just a combination of Realmrank , so called "skill" (Teamplay) AND Numbers ... You can adjust missing points in one of this factors by increasing anotherone.

Fair fights are fights where both sides have a chance to win.

While keeping that in mind some situations are a bit tricky ..
For example: normally i prefer not to add Rare, beause they didn't do it most of the time.
But it is important that they die from time to time to make it possible that weaker (less Skill, teamplay, RR or whatever) grps can challenge each other and not quitting because of no fun.

Add isn't always bad even for the 8vs8 Playerbase.
Just keep that in mind ..

well, we have some grps we add and some we don't, mid as well as alb and hib. When an enemy grp we add fights a mid grp we don't add we usually don't know what to do, run confused in circles, argue in ts and do what the one yelling the loudest says ^^

and it depends much on the quality of our grp, which changes daily. With a good grp we try not to add, with a bad... well before making 1k rp/h we tend to add

we just play for fun. We know we can bring a grp that can compete with the best grps here. But that is seldome the case, we invite who is available and go for it.

And we like zerg fights as well as 8v8 (again depends very on the quality of the grp).

WTB no RAs at all

Would make the game much more fun tbh^^

Ashoris wrote:While keeping that in mind some situations are a bit tricky ..
For example: normally i prefer not to add Rare, beause they didn't do it most of the time.
But it is important that they die from time to time to make it possible that weaker (less Skill, teamplay, RR or whatever) grps can challenge each other and not quitting because of no fun.

Add isn't always bad even for the 8vs8 Playerbase.
Just keep that in mind ..

+ 1 ... but keep in mind that Rare is dieing quite regulary at the moment, atleast against groups that regulary play together aswell =) , we had better times where people were more determined/teamed... but those will come back though im sure

Llithium wrote:I like all that talking without thinking...

In fact: Why did Mythic programmed DAoC that complex in case of skills, spells, abilities and a cap of 8 ppl for a grp?
If they wanted the people to zerg all day they wouldn't need all that, some dd and some heal and all is fine.

And that could have nothing to do with the fact that DAoC was heavily modeled after e.g. Everquest, which also had a limited group size. Oh and then of course the small problem of buffing and healing and generally keeping track of other peoples movements without having groups with a pre-determined size. It is of course more likely that Mythic developed the game for competitive play all along.

Llithium wrote:All that bulls hit about "elite" and "spirit" is simply a bad excuse for not having the determination to learn the game. Everyone is able to get involved, just learn from the experienced players, there are often people who take 1-2 newer people into their grps and give them advice what to do. There are enough tutorials and you can ask anyone about the game. Those who know about will give you advice, at least in the forum you get help.

Your arrogance is quite shocking tbh. Do you ever bother interacting with other people outside of your small circle of guild mates and other 8vs8 players?... Skill and determination have NOTHING to do with whether or not someone plays 8vs8 or zerg or small men or whatever.

Llithium wrote:So why run a zerg? The zerg was involved for the false reason to get RP. Since when collecting RP is the goal of the game? There is no reason to have high RR when you have skill and you get skill by converting your experience correctly into actions. If you are a tank and see the enemy caster is doing too much damage to your grp you know you shall target him first for example. The false idea that RP are the goal of DAoC made people become that disrespectful to their enemies. The goal of DAoC is fun and you get fun by messing with others and get better doing it. A kill has nothing special when you zerg someone down, if you kill someone in a fair fight or finally kill maybe 2 alone is what makes the RvR a good experience. If it 's just farming enemies and earn (realm)points for it then do us a favour and go to PvM zones with your toons and farm (experience)points, it 's quite the same but the respawn is better. There you can farm and zerg the whole day long, you learn nothing from it, you gain your reward points and you can do it whenever you want.
But for the few people who are willing to get experience with DAoC and get fun messing with enemies in (fair) fights (fight include that both sides have a nearly equal chance to win) then try to respect your enemies and treat them fair, the most will pay you back and it leads to a far better population in Emain when people know they can go there not to get just farmed down but a chance to get some fights.

To sum up "I Llithium, who only plays one type of RvR, am going to lecture all you noobs on what makes this game fun so pls shut the ****** up and see the error in your ways"

And to run the risk of repeating myself, 8vs8 can be fun - for a certain type of player. But those certainly do not make up the majority of this servers population and the other 90% or so that simply want to have a relaxed time fighting epic battles without a 5min discussion over teamspeak after each fight have just as much right roaming around in Emain as anybody. It's the 8vs8 crowd that wants to enforce some kind of unwritten rules. So really, the best solution would be to communicate and have those types of fights away from the main traffic areas. You are the ones who are coordinated and disciplined - so I think it is not too much to ask to move over, leave Emain to the Zergers and adders and otherwise 'unskilled noobs' and fight it out amongst yourself somewhere in e.g. odins.

I see where your coming from Lithium but I have a few issues w/ your statmenet. First, you actually say that a fair fight is a fight in which both sides have a chance to win, but if I am w/ a 8 man group of RR 4-5 players and your are running w/ a group of 8-11 RR players which side would you say has a better chance to win? Sometimes the zerg is after a few pug group's have got rolled on by high RR groups. Basically, not all, but most QQ's I hear about zerg's are high RR groups that are upset that they cant roll over the groups they normally see. That same philosophy carries over into 1 vs 1 play as well and i'm as guilty of it as anyone.

From RR 4L2 thru the mid 5L's I ran in duo and small man groups on my stealther because when I was solo I got killed by everyone. Some times I would lose 1 vs 1 and other times would get killed 3-8 vs 1. After awhile I just started grouping up w/ other guildies stealthers to counteract this and get some easy rp's. Now that I'm RR 7L1 I dont group up unless the only action going on at AMG is grouped stealther action. For example, I go out solo every night. If I can find good 1 vs 1 action you will see me solo all night. After 2 or 3 times of getting ganged up on I'm going to come back with friends to counteract this.

I've heard similiar comments from other stealthers and visi players. When you are getting destroyed every time in fights, whether its even numbers or your getting outnumbered, the easiest way to counteract that is to get more people. As you get higher RR and get better with your toon (or in 8 man groups when you get better at playing as a group) you realise that you can hold your own now and go out looking for 1 vs 1 fights more often.

I hope I didn't hurt your feelings too much Lasastard...

Maybe you better read what I 've written and not what you would like to read so you have something to answer.
Insulting around to feel better is nothing you will get along with, so go play with Topaz.


@Ron: In a 8v8 both sides have a chance to win, there were certain grps who beat for example DG/GdRW Ally groups time and time again. They have TS, they have experience, they have most of the time a lot of high RRs and still a bit teamwork and skill beats them, as much as a Rare grp gets beaten by some grps as well, that has nothing to do with haveing better conditions, but with knowing what to do. Sure there are groups who build up with not enough people having enough experience yet, but you can't balance it every time. These people simply learn nothing and win nothing with zerging, see Battle Royale, up to today they get beaten by any rr4 grp even if they have a basic rr of 8-10 already. Now they get farmed down by anyone because they just add everything and can't win a single 8v8 even on their RR.

Sure your enemies won't always treat you fair, but when you tell me you get farmed with a solo then you are definitely on the false spot. There are people always going solo and they made it to a quite good Rank yet. Just don't visit Amg too often and try to get some fights along the ways between mtk->mmg->amg->atk. Around amg there are enough people who are scouting to know if they can go to/pass.

I never claimed it to be easy and you will often get killed (even in fair duels), but the times you win a fight is worth it, better than winning no fight and just farming RPs or how is your view on it? Farming points is easily doable with Exp on any mobs, but winning a fight against your opponent is the spirit of fun in RvR, not the rewarded RPs, everyone can farm his rank.