What does "playing the game as a game" mean ?

pweet wrote:

Lemonjelly wrote:What makes the game unique is 3 sides, not the option of unsportsmanship (which isn't unique whatsoever).

Why do u need 3 sides if u dont add each others fights anyway. It is just like 2 for u anyway There are ppl out there who dont take daoc as an esports, there are way better games out there for competitive game play. Life with it, add is a part of daoc, but stop wining about it.

Didn't say I need 3 sides, it's just what makes the game unique. Learn to read. I'm not whining about adding, again learn to read. I got nothing against it, the only thing that bothers me is people who do it to leech rps and say they're doing it "for the realm". How exactly does the entire realm benefit from you leeching 100 realm points, hm ? If you wanna fight for the realm take keeps to open DF for your realm, organize relic raids or something.

That doesn't make my argument any less true, levels matter far less than you claim them to.

Yes it does, yes they are. A decent pack of level 50s will roll over a group of levelers anyday. Otherwise we're talking about getting lucky or domination by numbers. You can't expect levelers to compete with 50s. Please stop trying to insist that they can. It's not just levels, it's templates, RRs, etc, all of which 50s will have and levelers are liable to not have. Sure, maybe you might go up against the odd crappy group of 50s who are terrible, but they'll die to you once maybe and won't be back. Rest of the time you're either EXPing in relative peace or getting rolled.

No, you really don't want to get it do you. By making endRvR the only option for RvR beyond level 45, players will have the CHOICE what to do.

I think you're mistaking lack of agreement for lack of understanding. And no, removing options =/= giving the ability to choose. You're really full of yourself, and are almost nearing levels of direct provocation. :}

I apologize for not immediately agreeing with your ideas, but honestly sometimes you need to learn to deal with these things rather than calling things bull or declaring a topic "case closed" after once again repeating yourself. What you're doing is acting like what you're saying is a set of obvious facts and that I don't understand them. No, no, no, that's not what's going on, what's happening is that you're saying things that I disagree with and then instead of actually rebutting my arguments, you tell me I don't understand what you're saying and then go on to repeat what you said, except maybe after saying what I said was BS.

There's no real argument to keep the last BG if this is what you get for it, which means the only thing that's left to do for those still so vividly against is plain complaining that it's going to be the worst thing ever, which is complete bullsh.t. Case closed imo.

Except for the problem that:

There is no consensus that we actually need to get rid of the last BG to accomplish ANY of this. You insist that the frontiers have to monopolize all of the 45-49 action for this to work. And on top of that you act like it's obvious.

SORRY for being skeptical about losing a part of the game that currently is generating fun for players, including myself, for some theoretical idea that involves sub-50 characters being required to fight 50 characters, as if this would be an "enjoyable" transition. I'd rather the transition be *optional* AND *rewarding* -- meaning players below 50 would be able to get something out of hitting up the frontiers worthwhile WITHOUT being forced to. If it actually works and is actually enjoyable, then people won't NEED to be forced. Imagine if we're forced but the players absolutely avoid it or don't show up in droves like you seem to expect. :}

Then you'd have killed the BGs and done nothing good.

Nymeros wrote:Problem solved.

You will just "fix the problem without removing a BG", ok, how exactly?

Oh and how will you improve the transition between BGs and end-RvR when it's still forcing players to optimise their character completely to compete?

You act like when players hit 50 in your plan they're not going to optimize themselves. Getting your temp setup is the least of all problems, but it'll always be there. Only thing to do is make farming faster/more enjoyable without making it "too easy".

To be honest, farming/making money as well as getting a decent template is easy. What do you expect? To hit lvl50 and be as rich as some players who have been focussing on PvE for months?

bawww wrote:There are 3 reasons for adding on people who do not want to be added:
1. You are a roleplayer, and you are fighting for your realm (~10% of the adders)
2. You want rps, a lot of rps. But you are horrible at this game (~70% of the adders)
3. You are a griefer, and you do it to ruin other peoples fun (~20% of the adders)

So if you add on people it's because of one of these 3 reasons. Deal with it and stop making up excuses.

inb4 "ADDING IS NOT AGAINST THE RULES DERP!"
I did not say it's against the rules.

This.
Indeed to be noob is not against the rules.

Zarkor wrote:

Nymeros wrote:Problem solved.

You will just "fix the problem without removing a BG", ok, how exactly?

Are you serious? You've written like seventy walls of text about improving RvR and you're actually saying you have no idea how to "fix" RvR without removing BGs, after which you can say "Well, least people don't hang around in non-present Battlegrounds anymore. Gosh, we sure did fix them RvRs!". A little catch-22ish, don't ya think?

...

I don't believe OF RvR can ever be fixed to the degree you and the staff are making it look. What I do believe though is not giving free reign in removing alternative game elements to people who will only use them to make potentially failed changes seem like a huge success.

Face it, if you can't fix RvR without removing BGs, it can't be fixed. If you can, you will succeed despite any BG.

Zarkor wrote:Oh and how will you improve the transition between BGs and end-RvR when it's still forcing players to optimise their character completely to compete?

BG twinks are already optimized. Casual players shouldn't even want to hang around in BGs in this brave new world, because they are ALREADY forced into endgame RvR by the RR cap and the prospect of having to ------> level another char for BGs every time <------.

To add or not to add?

If you do, you'll get blamed ('That one was MY/OUR target!')
If you don't, and the guy/group dies, you'll get blamed ('You could have helped me/us !')

Looking at the 2 chances, i therefore choose to add. I'd get blamed anyway.
You think i'm a noob that can't take his own fights? That's your point of view, and i won't argue that, i'd ignore and go on.
It's RVR.
If i wanted fair fights... or better: if YOU wanted fair fights, why did you leave WOW and its ARENAS?

I think some of these people complaining about adds don't even realize one of the great things about DAoC pvp and why it is better than the instanced pvp in gw or wow. DAoC has more variables in its pvp and therefore each pvp encounter is unpredictable. The unpredictability of DAoC's pvp is what sets it apart.

Running into the same 8 man in the same instance over and over gets boring very quick. Going out to pvp and not knowing how many enemies you will face or from which realm or where you will face them adds suspense that instances will never have.

Don't know if you rvr at all but every 8v8 is different regardless of it being same the players. Don't need more people making the fight horribly onesided to make the game exciting, in fact it hardly ever does.

There should be no real need to remove thidranki as a bg, tbh it was not needed to have xpers back in agra, so it shouldn't be needed now. The pull off good xp spots with a decent bonus to leveling speed and an alternative route through the mg's is all the incentive people will need to level in OF. Therefor bringing out more casuals who try to roll xp groups, which in turn leads to more smallman action and the protect/kill xpers game.

Rizla wrote:There should be no real need to remove thidranki as a bg, tbh it was not needed to have xpers back in agra, so it shouldn't be needed now. The pull off good xp spots with a decent bonus to leveling speed and an alternative route through the mg's is all the incentive people will need to level in OF. Therefor bringing out more casuals who try to roll xp groups, which in turn leads to more smallman action and the protect/kill xpers game.

There is no way in protecting xpers from getting farmed. I can go to the xp spot and kill those xpers in seconds -> hide again or run away with speed 6 before help approaches (which I doubt). So basically it will turn out in massive xper ganking =)

GoGreen wrote:

Rizla wrote:There should be no real need to remove thidranki as a bg, tbh it was not needed to have xpers back in agra, so it shouldn't be needed now. The pull off good xp spots with a decent bonus to leveling speed and an alternative route through the mg's is all the incentive people will need to level in OF. Therefor bringing out more casuals who try to roll xp groups, which in turn leads to more smallman action and the protect/kill xpers game.

There is no way in protecting xpers from getting farmed. I can go to the xp spot and kill those xpers in seconds -> hide again or run away with speed 6 before help approaches (which I doubt). So basically it will turn out in massive xper ganking =)

xpers have a choice between homelands, thidranki and OF xp, if they get ganked they will choose to go to either of the two first options or an alternative spot in OF. If they choose to take the risk, i see no reason why you should not try to gank them. And to be fair, some xpers will give you a run for your money :p

Sure they can decide, but if they just get ganked too often none will show up at this xp spots
If there are new xp spots in OF they should be designed like in NF, close to the porter keeps.
In NF you could hunt the xper killers quite easily since you can be at the xp spot in no time. If I look at the ellyl spot in OF it will take some time to get there and back to the porter keep. Hence nobody is motivated to hunt a xper ganker at ellyl spot

GoGreen wrote:Sure they can decide, but if they just get ganked too often none will show up at this xp spots

GoGreen wrote:If I look at the ellyl spot in OF it will take some time to get there and back to the porter keep. Hence nobody is motivated to hunt a xper ganker at ellyl spot

You contradict yourself