I'm a hib and I have spent a fair amount of time in our own frontier of course but yesterday I took a little stroll through the Midgard frontiers. One thing I've noticed in both is that the normal keeps don't seem to have any guard patrols. Only the relic keeps seem to have patrols and those are much lighter than they should be and they also attack NPCs (that's a known issue.)

This isn't the way it should be. All the keeps should have guard patrols that move extremely fast and have a very large agro radius. My character is only level 38 and I should have been agroed on many times by keep guards with how close I was going to the keeps but they just aren't there. Even when I gave up trying to find any Mid players and suicided on their relic keep, I was able to run almost to the top of the hill the keep is on before I got any guard agro at all.

That brings me to another point. Not only are the uber guards from the other keeps not at the relic keeps but the guards that are there are wussies. It took them 8 hits to kill my level 38 ranger and I was able to evade their attacks 3 times. I should have been killed in 1 or 2 shots tops. I sincerely hope this is high on the priority list for fixes because if not, you're going to have groups of 3 taking keeps eventually.

edit: I guess I should add that none of these keeps were claimed so I don't know if the patrols only come after a keep is claimed and upgraded or not but that is not the way I remember it. I remember the patrols being there even if a keep wasn't claimed.

1. Relic keeps are not complete and are being worked on
2. Atm roaming guards only appear at higher level keeps, if this is incorrect we need some evidence proving this. As we have been unable to find such evidence ourselves a decision was made to have roaming guards spawn at higher levels to incentives upgrading your keeps.

Trishin wrote:1. Relic keeps are not complete and are being worked on
2. Atm roaming guards only appear at higher level keeps, if this is incorrect we need some evidence proving this. As we have been unable to find such evidence ourselves a decision was made to have roaming guards spawn at higher levels to incentives upgrading your keeps.

Aye i'll look for it, but i remember roaming gaurds in sets of 3 with speed 5 running around with Claimed keeps. they would spawn 30ish mins after a keep was taken. Searching the net now!

Trishin wrote:1. Relic keeps are not complete and are being worked on

I am aware of this and I am trying to further that work by pointing out what I feel is incorrect.

2. Atm roaming guards only appear at higher level keeps, if this is incorrect we need some evidence proving this. As we have been unable to find such evidence ourselves a decision was made to have roaming guards spawn at higher levels to incentives upgrading your keeps.

This is wrong and unlike some of the stuff debated here, this one was relatively easy for me to research. Excerpted from:


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Dark Age of Camelot

Version 1.54 Release Notes

Tuesday, November 11, 2002


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Code: Select all

RVR/FRONTIER KEEP CHANGES

We've made a few changes to make taking and holding frontier keeps much more attractive. The changes are designed to make it slightly easier to defend keeps, as well as give you more reason to control them. We will be making more enhancements to this system over time.

- Now, when a guild claims an outpost, all guards from that outpost raise one level. Additionally, as the keep is upgraded - one level is added to every guard for every upgrade level on the keep. Note that the named guards at the relic keeps are "from" these outposts and enjoy the same upgrades.

- Heal spells now receive a bonus from the power relic - finally healing classes will benefit by their Realm controlling power relics.

- Now, when the outer door of a keep is destroyed, all scouts from the outpost still alive will converge on the keep door to attempt repel all attackers.

- Players now receive an exp bonus when fighting within 16,000 units of a keep controlled by your realm or your guild. You get 20% bonus if your guild owns the keep or a 10% bonus if your realm owns the keep.

Now you have to draw a couple inferences from those patch notes. The first is that since it mentions nothing about roaming guard patrols being gained from claiming or upgrading a keep, you have to infer that they are/were there by default. That is what I remember and you can see corroborating evidence of that in this IGN whine thread about them that was started almost a year before the 1.54 patch: http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/the-n ... 250714871/

The second inference you have to draw is that the named guards (Hlidskialf Jarl, Crimthainn Champion, etc.) should be present at the relic keeps as long as the defending realm owns the keep they come from. Claiming/upgrading the frontier keeps only makes them stronger.

As far as incentives to upgrading keeps go, I think I already touched on that with the named guards. Fully upgraded named guards from all 6 frontier keeps are a formidable force, often too formidable to be dealt with except with anything less than a full on 200+ person raid. That is why back in the day, when you were going to take a relic, you had to plan the raid and take down the frontier keeps first to get rid of some or all of those guards. On Midgard Tristan, we once had a relic raid that was planned so that all 6 Hib frontier keeps would fall within minutes of one another so that by the time the Hibs figured out something was up, we were already on their relic keep. Needless to say, we were successful in taking a relic that day.

I hope this information was of some use to you in getting these things changed to how they should be.

I think you are taking a few logical leaps in your first interference that I can't personally justify based on that single patch note as they (as you said) mentions nothing about roaming guards there is no reason to believe they existed at non claimed keeps either.

Regarding your second claim about the relic guards. Yes we are aware of that and are working on implementing it.

Disclaimer: i haven't had a chance to check the ign link, if they specifically mentions roaming guards from unclaimed keeps i will consider that evidence enough, and fix this when I get a chance.

Trishin wrote:Disclaimer: i haven't had a chance to check the ign link, if they specifically mentions roaming guards from unclaimed keeps i will consider that evidence enough, and fix this when I get a chance.

LOL, look at the title of the thread:

The new roaming guards ruin RvR

Now couple that with the fact that you couldn't even claim a keep until the 1.54 patch which came 11 months later than that thread was started. There's your proof right there.

HatTrick wrote:

Trishin wrote:Disclaimer: i haven't had a chance to check the ign link, if they specifically mentions roaming guards from unclaimed keeps i will consider that evidence enough, and fix this when I get a chance.

LOL, look at the title of the thread:

The new roaming guards ruin RvR

Now couple that with the fact that you couldn't even claim a keep until the 1.54 patch which came 11 months later than that thread was started. There's your proof right there.

I was on my phone and unable to check the link, even the title, there is no need to be condescending. It does seem like the roaming guards were part of level 1 unclaimed keeps, and I will see what we can do to change this. In the future, I hope you will get a better attitude though, as your way of talking to staff members in no way encourage a desire to cooperate with you in any research in the future.

Trishin wrote:

HatTrick wrote:

Trishin wrote:Disclaimer: i haven't had a chance to check the ign link, if they specifically mentions roaming guards from unclaimed keeps i will consider that evidence enough, and fix this when I get a chance.

LOL, look at the title of the thread:

The new roaming guards ruin RvR

Now couple that with the fact that you couldn't even claim a keep until the 1.54 patch which came 11 months later than that thread was started. There's your proof right there.

I was on my phone and unable to check the link, even the title, there is no need to be condescending. It does seem like the roaming guards were part of level 1 unclaimed keeps, and I will see what we can do to change this. In the future, I hope you will get a better attitude though, as your way of talking to staff members in no way encourage a desire to cooperate with you in any research in the future.

Trishin, I sincerely apologize if you mistook what I wrote for condescension. The "LOL" I put there was just that, I chuckled out loud when I read your reply because the title of the thread said that there were roaming guards. I can assure you that I was not trying to belittle or poke fun at you by putting that in my reply. I am very appreciative that you and the rest of the Uthgard staff give your personal free time to provide a venue for the rest of us to have fun with so again, let me reiterate that I was not trying to be condescending.

HatTrick wrote:

Trishin wrote:Disclaimer: i haven't had a chance to check the ign link, if they specifically mentions roaming guards from unclaimed keeps i will consider that evidence enough, and fix this when I get a chance.

LOL, look at the title of the thread:

The new roaming guards ruin RvR

Now couple that with the fact that you couldn't even claim a keep until the 1.54 patch which came 11 months later than that thread was started. There's your proof right there.

Too bad that the title of the thread didn't discouraged you from reporting. The roaming guards where indeed a pain in the ass for solos and small men.

Thalien wrote:

HatTrick wrote:

Trishin wrote:Disclaimer: i haven't had a chance to check the ign link, if they specifically mentions roaming guards from unclaimed keeps i will consider that evidence enough, and fix this when I get a chance.

LOL, look at the title of the thread:

The new roaming guards ruin RvR

Now couple that with the fact that you couldn't even claim a keep until the 1.54 patch which came 11 months later than that thread was started. There's your proof right there.

Too bad that the title of the thread didn't discouraged you from reporting. The roaming guards where indeed a pain in the ass for solos and small men.

In 2001 when people weren't even level 50 they were a hazard. Later, as people got to 50 and got templated they were more of an annoyance and an early warning system for the guilds that had the keep claimed. They need to be there so 3 guys can't ninja keeps.

- Now, when the outer door of a keep is destroyed, all scouts from the outpost still alive will converge on the keep door to attempt repel all attackers.

This doesn't currently work on Uthgard.

Trishin wrote:As we have been unable to find such evidence ourselves a decision was made to have roaming guards spawn at higher levels to incentives upgrading your keeps.

I could imagine that you had to make similar decisions for other stuff. Would it be possible to list these assumptions, to see if the community can come up with evidence supporting or disproving them?

Nelg wrote:

Trishin wrote:As we have been unable to find such evidence ourselves a decision was made to have roaming guards spawn at higher levels to incentives upgrading your keeps.

I could imagine that you had to make similar decisions for other stuff. Would it be possible to list these assumptions, to see if the community can come up with evidence supporting or disproving them?

Pretty simple: Go on Uthgard and see for yourself. I can't list every decision we made during our revamp.

Trishin wrote:Pretty simple: Go on Uthgard and see for yourself. I can't list every decision we made during our revamp.

I would love to, but I can’t.

If there were a list of decisions that were made without any evidence, it would of course be way more effective to know these instead of needing luck to stumble upon something ingame and not ignoring it, thinking that it probably was like that in 1.65. But if I understand you correctly, there’s no list, so that’s that.

Hello!

I already got an issue tracker going about roaming guards....

https://uthgard.org/tracker/issue/138/@ ... ing_Guards

I'm pretty sure that even if we dont find any evidence that they DID pop up on unclaimed keeps we would still be very happy if they spawn when we claim a keep...