Feedback on RvR situation (yet another RvR analysis ^^)
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The purpose of this wall of text is to highlight the design issues in Uthgard’s interpretation of DAoC ‘as is’ - from the perspective of a player. It does not account for possible changes that may or may not come, mainly because it is not entirely clear what the current goal for the server is. Recent statements have been somewhat contradicting or unclear. I will refrain from including too much fuel for flames, but I think this list will be useful for a staff-community discussion.
New Frontiers RA The change of the RA system that came with NF frontiers currently has two issues when it comes to Uthgard. 1) It is is not ‘classic’ as by the definition used by the staff for the past 2 years. 2) It was designed with the ToA expansion in mind so that RAs and ML / Artefact abilities would complement each other. Since Uthgard has no ToA content, there is a clear imbalance here that is not easily addressed. Major issues that come to mind are PD or the lowered cast speed/mana-pool and reduced MOC on casters while tanks have full access to charge. Another hot topic is the RvR sickness, which has always been curable under any RA or patch setting, and was introduced on Uthgard with the argument that it serves to prevent players from ‘jumping into the enemies’ or similar. I think all active players can agree that this has *never* been an issue on Uthgard with its small player count and it nicely highlights a significant problem in the interpretation and analysis of the current setting by the staff. Current conclusion: A decision regarding RAs needs to be made - either bring old RAs soon to meet the stated development goal and provide a more robust framework for future developments or stick with NF; but be prepared to do heavy customizations on them. However, for the latter, other problems will ensure (see below). Old Frontiers Zone The old frontier zone was put in place as part of the decision to make Uthgard a classic server. Again, there are two main issues with this 1) Massive time sinks related to long travel times / port delay / lack of teleport to keeps - which keeps players from enjoying RvR and ultimately holds back the entire premise of the epic battles that have characterized the original game that the staff wishes to recreate. 2) Static, uninteresting keeps and focused on one zone for convenience (no warmap + poor design in e.g. the alb zones) Current conclusion: OF was accepted as part of the original server goals and to make Uthgard more unique. However, clearly there are problems with it. Recent statements by the staff suggest that possible changes will include the addition of features precisely from that frontier layout (NF) that was originally abandoned as being inferior (teleport to keeps). The issue is made worse by recent speculation that OF RAs may never come and that Uthgard will in fact stick with the NF RA setting. It is difficult to follow this rationale and the justification for the OF zone is then called into question for some/many players. Classic-live like changes A number of changes have been introduced that have created a lot of discontent among the players - like the removal of all barrels (even mana for supports) or hasteners. The main issue with these changes is not their impact on the players themselves, but more that that the live-like argument is becoming increasingly difficult to buy into as more custom changes are being discussed and the overall ‘classic’ goal may be conceptually abandoned in favor of a server setting that is neither classic nor ‘modern’. Why make life for levelers harder by removing speed from PvE zones. Because they are then forced to invite a bard to shuttle them to their PvE spot? Again, this does not really reflect the reality from the point of the community, I think. Overall conclusion A re-statement of the server goal may be needed. Should it be a classic server of yore? If so, the foundation needs to be laid out properly - zone plus RAs - and then be worked on from there. Right now it’s limbo and riddled with problems. Or should it follow more closely the changes that came with NF? And if so, it would probably be better and easier to maintain in the long run to bring back the NF zone + keeps as these things can actually co-exist nicely (live classic servers). An added advantage would be that it becomes a lot easier to research the mechanics related to RvR, since most of them can still be tested on live or are at the very least better documented than the old frontiers. Finally, critical mass remains a problem on Uthgard - I have mentioned this a few times in this wall of text. Unfortunately, neither pure NF nor pure OF can really address the problem of low population; even if more of the population can be interested in participating in RvR. OF has the mile gates, which unfortunately make for very boring RvR - NF had Agramon, a working warmap and more efficient ways of travelling across the map. From these two, the latter to me seems a more sensible solution given that the staff has already acknowledged that elements of NF need to be brought to the current settings. In both cases however, the RvR zone should perhaps be reduced by introduction of static teleport keeps that replace e.g. the travel between DL and Emain (a possible candidate would be Dun Bolg). As the population rises, this could be changed again or even being made dependent on the time of day or similar. Last edited by Lasastard on Jun 27, 2012 12:19, edited 1 time in total.
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In my opinion the biggest problem is the low populated playerbase
even in this winter while 1000 players where online at primetime, rvr zone was underpopulated now its even more underpopulated. that NF-ra without toa is in my eyes a smaller issue also old frontiers. also that people have more fun to grind from 1-49.5 and instant reroll, instead of doing big-boy rvr is kinda strange for me, but thats written on another paper. |
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Nice consumption !
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Good post, but...
Let me just quote myself here:
Oh wait, that's right, blue censors the truth to prevent people from realising it.  In defense of truth-to-experience.
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I am aware of Blues position on these posts. My aim was to - rather than complaining too much about details - highlight the inconsistencies in reasoning that have been applied to the design of Uthgard's RvR; or rather percieved inconsistencies. It may well be that a very solid plan is in place, but since we are not told about these things...this is how it looks at the moment from the point of view of an experienced DAoC/RvR player. For what it's worth. |
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Lasastard, such discussions will only be led in the player council in future. If you want to take part ask Luydor.
As for Zarkors post, it was crap with insults against the staff. He just doesn't get that with such behaviour he will get ignored. This has nothing to do with a post like the one in this thread. It's done when it's done. Thanks for your patience.
Every bug gets fixed. Sooner or later. "It is an inescapable law of nature that the amount of satisfaction one gains from achieving something is related to how hard it is and easy things can only elicit a fleeting superficial sort of pleasure." Blue says, "you used macro tools or macro keyboard" Pala says, "i am disabled. and i have a mechanic left hand that can be programed. its hard to play woith one hand" [Appeal] Bxxxxxxxx: "why is RA first aid cann man i stealth use and not unstealth cann man ra if man use unstealth ?????????" BannedUser: "i was not using automate game action my hand was fall on keyboard during i was sleep .... i was completly fall on keyboard ..." |
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In my opinion such posts are important since many players have doubts about the staff's/gm's participation in Uthgard's RvR. Especially posts of a RvR active and experienced player like Lasastard should be taken serious.
aylwynn warden
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I believe there are more PvE-Players than RvR-Players on Uthgard...
If someone wants RvR and hates PvE, will never start on Uthgard. Example: I start here with ~12 RvR-Players from Live. 6 Players leaved Uthgard before lvl 20. 3 Players leaved at ~lvl 40. Reason: awful grinding, not enough RvR. |
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We already do discuss a lot of these points in the player council, but it makes no sense to address so many points at once. Besides the council is not even half complete yet on the player side... first advice i can give to the players: stop expecting huge changes in days or even weeks.
This is a freeshard and no company behind it that earns money with uthgard, what i got out of the council so far is that the coder and GM do understand the problems of the community very well. A lot better than even i thought. And the will to change things to the good for the community exists and is in work, but no one can tell how long this will take. |
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then they must not have been very dedicated or never played daoc classic live and expected something else. As a good fg It is possible to get lvl 50 in 7 days and be SC't and rdy for emain rvr in 14 days, without a lot of help. But even without this hardcore gaming it is possible to reach level 30 and be ready for braemar in 2 weeks in a very casual playstile. And i would do only BG rvr from there on, leveling just when there is no action in my actual bg... |
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true words, but it is boring here, that's the real reason  |
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I agree with Holsten, it's no good putting down loads of issues at once in a thread and also the astronomical expectations of the player base.
I personally preferred the Old Frontiers, they have a lot more character than the bland New Frontier zones. The RA problem is a real issue, I like aspects of both but neither is truely ideal, NF RAs address some of the larger issues that were experienced in RvR (Crowd Control and Mastery of Concentration) but put a whole load of stuff in there that doesn't fit the current environment. The only true solution is a custom one (Old RAs with custom adjustments and additions). |
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We do both play Uthgard? My experience telling me this is BS Sir  Edit: Maybe the player council should just form a fullgroup and start over again on Uthgard (excluding help from their already existing buddies), this might help a lot solving -newbie problems- Satas Hakx - various artists
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i was thinking a similar thing. Maybe with a good group and the financial backing of one of the largest alliances on the server. Lets not forget that most people who start here do not turn up with a ready made FG, so cant expect to be running with the big boys in 7 days. i would doubt they could do it in a month, unless they play like mindless zombies 24/7 |
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have to agree with Snigel we made it in 8 days 1-50 and fully SC'ed but only we traded a lotta money from one realm into the new realm and played like brainless zombies in our holidays. WITHOUT any help... lol no also interesting that 2 people in my old guild that have rr9+(visible) chars rerolled the same class to go "back in time" into the bg's cause they had more fun and less timesinks, etc... one one side its really good that exist a freeshards with different targets. but on the other side all the dev's/gm's are working for free, so they can never put so much effort like they would like to put in this projekt. (ofc even this server is only a hobby, it reached a lot) also the playerbase is small and i doubt that it will raise a lot over time, but also it will never reach zero cause here is a solid playerbase (even it is small) many people on live know this server well and tested it, but like me i dont have the time like i had in the old days (same reason why MMO get faster n easier). to sum my sh*t up : this is a hobby, not a company driven money-making server the players hav to deal with the old and timesink mechanics and not everyone want or can play this much to reach a good level. |
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