XiaN^^ wrote:from an 8v8 perspective since thats all that really matters:

from easiest to hardest (at rr5+)

alb > hib > mid

reason for this is that kite groups are always easier to play than tank setups at a competitive level. bad players will disagree here cos they are bad at everything and when bad caster group meets bad tank groups the tank group will usually win cos stick n click is infact the only thing that is required to win over a bad caster group. however when both groups know what they are doing it becomes much harder for the tank group to get on top of casters. this is especially true on this server with broken amnesia and broken snares. the reason why alb is easier than hib when fighting mids is the obviously overpowered RA´s such as bof/sos that are specifically suited to hardcounter tank groups. that beeing said albs have a hard time vs hibs but overall alb is still easier to play cos sos makes it very easy to recover from mistakes/bad incs.

from strongest to weakest (at rr5+)

hib > alb > mid

like i said above a good caster group should never lose to a tank group and especially not here due to mentioned bugs. the reason why hib is rated stronger is cos they beat alb groups by default due to 3x purge (impossible to win NS fight vs hibs) and the lack of heat resist in alb groups. also once the hibs have decent RR they have enough dmg/power to beat mid groups aswell which is really hard at low realm rank due to low light spec and mids having 50% heat resist.

you are correct that mid has the clear upperhand over both alb and hib at very low RR due to low dmg on casters and therefor resulting power issues to kill mid tanks. however classic fights are very much about RA dumping and mid simply has nothing to dump that can remotely compare to sos/bof/group purge in terms of power. on top of that once alb/hib casters get some ranks their dmg goes up alot so they need less power to kill a tank while also having more power from RA´s like mcl/rp. once those casters get moc aswell its close to impossible for a mid tank group to beat a non retarded caster group.

you will hear alot of awful players cry about savages and their dmg and yes their dmg is insanely absurd but reality is a savage has no snare and no pf and if you´re not total trash at the game you should never be caught by a svg as a caster.

bottomline is mid is by far the hardest realm to play in this patch and especially on this server and everyone who tells you otherwise has simply no clue about how this game is played at a high level of skill. alot of mid guilds have realized this by now after the easy start and are rerolling to other realms one after the other now.

Your argumentation is based on the assumption that every fight will start perfectly for the Caster group AND all RA's are up, which isn't even the case in most fights.

I also think that it is difficult to say "XY will be stronger on high RR", while there are no real high RR groups out there and all you can do is argue with live experiences from 14 years ago. (Which was a completely different way to play at that time).

If you say, an Alb/Hib group getting a 1500 range INC trough the trees with Instant CC and nothing ready to compensate is considered "bad", I can't share your opinion.

If you say Caster will become stronger with high RR (active mana abilites and dmg, MOC), I would ask "Tanks doesn't"? Much more damage, maiby AoM (I don't now how viable it is on 1.65).

To be honest, I think it would be blatant to generalize any Realm into EZ or Hardmode.

Every realm has pros and cons depending on the situation.

Mids have the easiest group setup. Easiest basic gameplay (Push + Rupt) and good (not OP) RA's (PR can be really annoying, a well set Ichor on Caster, too). "Easy" in most terms, means easy for rookies, but less efficient if played on "Pro"-lvl. Full chain mid setups count on durability. Mid groups shine on short range INCs (you can try to avoid this situations, but this won't work out in most situations). Mids have easy PvE groups, while there are quite no good PL/Farm-options (beside SH-Xp-Zergs). Midgroups shine at Keep-Raids, while they get problems with defending them.

Alb group setups are quite fixed unversatile / difficult. Basic gameplay is quite difficult. RA's are OP (in a specialized way, try BoF against Hibgroups) when ready. Alb groups shine on long distance INCs. PvE groups are more difficult, while there are many PL-options in the end. Albs can equally Raid / Defend keeps, because of the tank-caster relation (which is quite even).

Hib group setups are quite the middle between Mid and Alb in terms of complexity. The basic gameplay is quite difficult. RA's are OK (GP, BAoD, TF). Hib grps shine in long / mid range INCs. Hibs have difficult PvE groups (quite the same as Alb), but several Farm/PL-options, not talking about Hib, especially animists, defending a keep.

In my opinion, alltogether the realms are quite balanced. Every realm / setup can shine in a certain situation. Mid RvR / 8x8 seems easier for rookies, while Alb/Hib setups gain efficiency when played well (This does not mean, that mid groups are useless in the right hands) and if the situation is on their side. Some RA's might be OP, but thats why they have 30 minute timer. (At least at EU-primetime in Odins, BoF is ready in about every 3-4th fight and its useless vs Hib-Caster-Groups).

Every hardcounter ability means, it is useless against the opposite setting.

"You always want what you don't have!".
Albs want instant CC / full chain groups + 3x PR.
Mids want 2k CC / Bof + SoS + Group Purge + TF.
Hibs want full chain groups / 2k CC / SoS + BoF + 3x PR.

Greetings

First rule when you talk about tiers list, always put what you play bottom tiers and try to build arguments from there