Shafi wrote:

holsten-knight wrote:Alb and hib have more elitist nicefighter "dont add" grps out that will watch your pug grp fight against a rr11 guildgrp, let your pug grp die, tell you how bad you are and laugh about you... this is no fun for pug player.

I really doubt that any of the "nicefighter" groups laugs at pugs dying to high rr grps.
And like I said many times before, I am pretty sure, that your playstyle does harm random rvr a lot. I am not argueing that there are mid pugs who welcome adds, but overall it probably does more harm than good to random rvr. Consider hib and alb pugs who already struggle in rvr and when they actually have a good looking fight chances are, you will just brush over it with you rr11 gank squad.
Think about it this way. If Req and MB in Hib and TI and NW in Albion played red is dead, I am pretty sure that the number of mid pugs would drop rather quickly.

Satiah wrote:

Caemma wrote:Ehm, all realm have charge (!)

No [I am a little bunny and like flowers] Sherlock.

Also hib & alb can train thrust weapons (!) and have flurry (assist 20% dd!) and some nice utilities (slam/3plewield/tricks/snares)

Slam and snares are available to all 3 realms. Ask any BM or Merc if they rather have Triple wield/Dirty Tricks or vendo AND celerity. Infact they'd settle for just celerity alone. Aswell that celerity works for your whole group, so your Savage, Warrior, Skald and Thane are getting some of that love too. Flurry is just Fluffy and thrust weapons are based on str AND dex. Could roll an elf BM I suppose. The whole point is that you can charge in, pick a target, assist, go into rat mode when celerity fires and drop it. Good luck healing vs that without any BoF. And if you do manage it, check your mana bar again.

Anyways, that (balance) is besides to point (could go on about shammy's (perma endu on class thats unkillable), 2 or even 3 healers (demezz), etc, etc.).

It's about making a setup that stands atleast a chance vs your average midgroup. Even without adds. Also for a Hibgroup if you happen to survive your run to emain (cause smart/bored groups will ninja on the main route towards Emain), nothing is more demoralising that getting run/zerged over after that 5min walk for the 3rd time. PvE seems a whole lot less boring all of a sudden. Infact it's time to craft!

Also a low rr caster (lets forget the eld, actually usefull) wont do any serious damage alone and will be out of mana after 5 nukes (which will be 4 resists (Uthgard random) and 1 nuke for 180dmg). Take a debuffer then (I hear you say), but that requires teamplay and you are already selecting instead of pugging. The lowbie druids wont have any BoF (to counter vendo/celerity), so both your beserkers are laughing in vent. Take the random lowbie bard (15min till purge is up) and it all ends up in tears (no endu, no demezz, no rupts). Could take the animist, but the dmg on bombers isnt correct. Also it requires a good player for it to work (brake of early - tanglers), thus selecting again.

I have yet to encounter an Alb group without an Theur btw.

Basically all i'm saying is that a standard Midgard pug works far better then your Alb or Hib counterpart. So cut the crap on the holy grails, setgroups and nicefighting. There's a reason for it.

Find another zone to 8vs8 in? Could do, but the other zones are infested with mobs and the action IS in Emain. When you make that near perfect setup with a pug, you want a go at those Midpugs (which will stay in Emain). Preferbly 1 at a time.

There, you can have some wine and cheese with that too.

Caemma wrote:Im not sure if are speaking about mid high rr gorups vs low rr hib group or just speaking about setup (= same rr/skill)

Melee alb/hib groups cound perfectly work, and as i said maybe even better than caster setups (since need more coordination!) and as you may know, eld in a hib group (especially at low rr -> not much dmg) should play as "utility", like diseasing zerks and NSing healers/shaman while kiting a zerk with hero (that if is good with snares it could lead to the zerk death).
Of couse we are speaking about situation, and every is different, but you cant say that there is no possibility. At least not vs same rr group.

Mid melee group die when zerks can't deal dmg (snare/disease/share) or win if it can keep doing dmg till the "finish mana/error point". It's pretty a stupid tactic (as almost all tanks setups) that's why is easy to do in pug.

Also, it will be really rare that 3 zerks will assist togheter, at least it is really situational (aotg or guard tank under CC or good rupters -> that you will hard find in a pug), otherwise you will just get blocked again and again by a guardbot, and probably die because others "targets" will be free to do their job freely.

Edit: also the video you posted is not a "normal pug" and not a low rr lol, you wont see any celerity on 32km pushing zerks