Seyha wrote:I'm kind of skeptical of this. Defending OF keeps is a pain in the butt due to numerous LOS issues, the absence of burning oil (so Mr. Tank has something to contribute besides throwing axes from the wall), and the bad design of the keeps in general. I think most players avoid keep defense because it isn't fun. Most keep "sieges" are really just 8v8s outside the wall or in the courtyard.

So what did players on live servers do to defend keeps in OF?

Blue wrote:

Adianne wrote:Because it might draw out folks to RvR who usually don't. Defending is really much easier than open field RvR, requires less skill, so some folks who may be a bit shy of open field RvR might come out. Kill the enemy who attacks your keep, get a bit of learning in then maybe they would venture out there more?

A bit like they know it from BG's.

You're right, you should learn it in the BG's, but once you get out of Thid and into the Big World of RvR, you realize without RA's, you're toast, so many do Guard Tasks to get the RR, give them another option. This seems the easiest way, and it might bring some of the roaming groups to keeps, just to draw out more action? When I RvR, if it is slow in Emain, we will go hit a claimed keep just to see if the Guild who owns it will come defend. Al ot of times, they will catch us in the courtyard or on the front door, so open RvR, not just wall humping. But yes, there will be wall humping too.

basically they waited in the lord room for ppl charging in and hoped that they ve better moc bombs...keep desing has always been poor in OF, but ppl didnt care since it was a new experience of gaming in daoc. this game is 10years old, no one cares anymore defending poorly designed keeps with static fights.

It was easier to farm RPs during a keep siege in 2002 than it is now. Archers criting sitting casters for 2000 damage; the fragility of non-temped players combined with the incompetence of their healers. Now being a defender in a keep siege means getting focused the moment you climb the damned ladder (pathetic that you must stand on top of the battlement to get LOS). Most of the time the defenders are just suppressed until the gate falls.

We've had OF keeps for 2 years(?) now. I can think of one, maybe two "fun" sieges in that time.

pweet wrote:basically they waited in the lord room for ppl charging in and hoped that they ve better moc bombs...keep desing has always been poor in OF, but ppl didnt care since it was a new experience of gaming in daoc. this game is 10years old, no one cares anymore defending poorly designed keeps with static fights.

This.

Blue wrote:So what did players on live servers do to defend keeps in OF?

That was different time and mind set. That was when "Realm Pride" meant something and a "Call to Arms" was taken seriously. At least in Nimue it was. How do you change a mind set?

It's nice to get ignored by staff after you give them an explanation about how can a thing work better

Btw we have old keeps that arent better than NF keeps, but we still have NF siege system that can be used..

And the motive that i (was) trying to get fun things on this server was:

Adianne wrote: Because it might draw out folks to RvR who usually don't. Defending is really much easier than open field RvR, requires less skill, so some folks who may be a bit shy of open field RvR might come out. Kill the enemy who attacks your keep, get a bit of learning in then maybe they would venture out there more?

But, hey!! Fun things that keep classic the server like what i've said some post before, here aren't welcome!

Keep going, cya

Caemma wrote:It's nice to get ignored by staff after you give them an explanation about how can a thing work better

Hmm yeah I'm ignoring everything, thats why I posted and responded about 20+ times today. Go trolling elsewhere please.

Blue wrote:

Caemma wrote:It's nice to get ignored by staff after you give them an explanation about how can a thing work better

Hmm yeah I'm ignoring everything, thats why I posted and responded about 20+ times today. Go trolling elsewhere please.

Mmm i think that trolling is != propose a thing, but maybe we have different dictionary ._.

I think the keep porting system will go a long way in re-valueing the defenses, together with the reward that is in stall for succesful keep defence as Blue pointed out in my topic.


What might also be interesting is to grant keeps in a zone an additional XP and Gold bonus to that zone (reminds me of the bonus the realm gets for holding a BG keep). If the home realm owns the keep, the bonus is applied for each keep in that zone, with an improved bonus for the primary zones since there is only 1 keep there.

However if the enemy realm holds a keep in that zone, they earn the triple the bonus from that specifc keep (otherwise, holding 4 home realm keeps still equals taking 2 enemy keeps, which isn't logical in my opinion). This entices players to invade enemy territory and take risks.





I was talking about the shifting of BG ranges so that the latest BG ends at around level 41in my topic. (lvl 41 instead of 42 because slam is too impacting to be able to have at the last level imo, the benefit between being 42 as a slam tank will be too large compared to the levels 36-41, some tanks will most likely just wait for lvl 42 instead of going to the BG anyway)

Add to that the extra XP and gold bonusses from keeps.

Add to that the rewards for succesful keep defending.

Add to that the keep taking missions which would also grant significant XP on top of RP and gold to cater them towards non-50s as well.

Add to that the revamp of the actual XP spots in OF so that they are worthwhile in terms of respawn and numbers.

Add to that the potential other enemy players that go out to benefit from the new keep defence rewards, keep tasks or simply some action.


I can see a really strong cocktail in terms of potential wealth, XP and RP character progression for the non-50 more PvE oriented players, as well as those who prefer to focus more on casual-style RvRing, both non-50 and 50.



I think this could be the boost casual RvR needs if the BG shift is combined with these changes because it adds so much more player activity to the equasion. It would also not make sense to have to take the BG keep to have that xp bonus and then go to the frontiers to benefit from those bonusses as well.


With BGs starting from lvl 15-19 and ending at for instance 36-41 you will do 2 things:

1) Open up a large portion of new RvR-zone oriented players while supporting their RvR needs with the setting mentioned above.

2) Improve the BG experience itself. Players can go there sooner and enjoy them longer. (This also HUGELY improves the server experience to new players, which in turn will grow to be the end RvR population of the future, again benefiting the system.)

However they will only serve as a stepstone towards end RvR because they do not reach to the final levels in the BG (The lack of slam for instance is a significant difference towards endgame playstyles. Also, many of the final abilities lie on those last couple of levels.). BGs should be no substitute for end RvR. But in order to justify this claim, end RvR needs to be worthwhile for all playstyles, which is what these changes can very well succeeed in, there will be various, and sufficient ways of getting worthwhile casual RvR action.

Not to mention their XP character progression will definitely not be harmed compared to now. Also, removing the last BG will not harm BG RvR quality itself. The spirit of BG RvR remains the same at practicly all levels.



Also, there would be no need for the ridiculous increase in XP rewards or killing enemy players I proposed to entice non-50s to the RvR zones. This would take a much more natural, varied and interesting course than a flat bonus.

Also, the loss of a keep means a loss of a bonus AND potential portal spot (if from homerealm) to a specifc realm. This might add to the realmpride too.