Whenever I'm in DF and the enemy is otw I just assume it's time to die. My main is still gray, well just barely, but if I get ganked that's just the way it is. As long as they don't give me an XP death on purpose I'm fine. However I do have a small kos list for those who have gone out of their way to be a dbag. They made me cry IRL and they're gonna pay. .. lol

I think people want to win more then continue to get fights. For instance last night we had a 4 man out in emain (late night, 10pm est US), and there was 3-4 other small man groups, between 3-5 players, lots of fun. Then what happens is those groups get sick of losing, and instead of changing strats, classes, or just simply playing better, they go with strength in numbers and combine to a fg or more. Which thats fine, its emain, I have no issues with that, but do realize our 4 man is not going to come out again after...hense, pvp ends for us. I dont think people try to "ruin" rvr, they just would rather win once, then have good fights for hours...

Sadly enough I agree with you NTC for the most part. I always tried to explain that to people I group with occasionally on my stealther. If its 1 vs 1 dont help, even if I die. Let him kill me then afterwards if you want you can finish him off. By doing this you encourage him to keep coming back. If you fight 2/3 vs 1 all the time those solo's will quit coming back. They might bring more, but chances are they are going to log. The idea is to have sustained RvR. I dont mind dying as long as I can come back out and get some action.

Its pretty rare when im soloing for someone to not jump in. Regardless if they know me or my alts but they should know that most of the time solos who do get run over have earned it.

This has always been an issue in RvR.

The RR10 <insert class> is having fun killing RR1-4 soloers, and it's fair, right? 1on1 after all...
Suddenly a RR3 <damage> and a RR4 <healer/CC> classes groups, and kill the RR10, who really has little chance.

So he calls out one of his guildies, and suddenly it's "fair" again, 2 RR10, vs. 2 RR4 (one gained a RR... )...

This continues till...:

The RR10 group think it's fair to roll over the RR4 group constantly, but when the RR4 group merges with another RR3 group, and wins a fight, suddenly the RR10 group think it's unfair that the RR3/4 groups are zerging.

Fair doesn't exist, it's a term that is unique to each and every individual.

Back on live I always felt like a big hot-shot, when my RR10, insanely expensive template, SM killed pretty much anyone I came across, even duos (even killed a whole freaking group, but template/RR/experience, oh and a small tiny twr might be a factor...). Or on my RR7 Valk, with 2 buff-bots...
Was it fair? Likely not. I was fighting RR5'ish, and also likely wearing poorer qual templates.

Is a RR10 vs. RR10, wearing same outfit, playing the same class a fair fight? Most would agree "Yes".
But what if one of them has significant more experience, since the other bought his account?
Some would say it is, I say it isn't.

I've watched a caba/sorc combo wreck ruin in Wilton, both were in TS in the best template they could get. Fighting even groups, and while that may seem unfair (to who?), they still won, because of: Template, Fast communication combined with a good plan, experience fighting together, experience in general, higher RR, higher average lvl.


It's likely impossible to set up fights, where both sides find it fair.

there will always be 'escalation' in RvR, its the natural progression form losing to winning.

if you lose as a 1v1 you escalate to 2v1 in order to win.. it just keeps on going up until there are no more players to escalate with. Then whoever has the least will usually log first.

there are always exceptions where one team may escalate to 2 pugs or more and still lose to a well played set group though.

I've noticed in Wilton recently that Mids have a very hard time against your average Hib 8man, so much so that they have to run 2 groups deep. This then causes the Hibs to roll 2 groups deep.. I wont mention the albs because they haven't really been present in any great numbers in the BG's recently (at least when I've been on)

Also another reason for the zerg (at least on Mids side) is that we very rarely form 8 man groups but prefer to run in 2-4 man groups, but all role at the same time. You quite often see 4 mans runing around until the Inc CK is shouted on broad, then they all turn up at the same time forming a zerg.

Sekunda wrote:This has always been an issue in RvR.

The RR10 <insert class> is having fun killing RR1-4 soloers, and it's fair, right? 1on1 after all...
Suddenly a RR3 <damage> and a RR4 <healer/CC> classes groups, and kill the RR10, who really has little chance.

So he calls out one of his guildies, and suddenly it's "fair" again, 2 RR10, vs. 2 RR4 (one gained a RR... )...

This continues till...:

The RR10 group think it's fair to roll over the RR4 group constantly, but when the RR4 group merges with another RR3 group, and wins a fight, suddenly the RR10 group think it's unfair that the RR3/4 groups are zerging.

Fair doesn't exist, it's a term that is unique to each and every individual.

Back on live I always felt like a big hot-shot, when my RR10, insanely expensive template, SM killed pretty much anyone I came across, even duos (even killed a whole freaking group, but template/RR/experience, oh and a small tiny twr might be a factor...). Or on my RR7 Valk, with 2 buff-bots...
Was it fair? Likely not. I was fighting RR5'ish, and also likely wearing poorer qual templates.

Is a RR10 vs. RR10, wearing same outfit, playing the same class a fair fight? Most would agree "Yes".
But what if one of them has significant more experience, since the other bought his account?
Some would say it is, I say it isn't.

I've watched a caba/sorc combo wreck ruin in Wilton, both were in TS in the best template they could get. Fighting even groups, and while that may seem unfair (to who?), they still won, because of: Template, Fast communication combined with a good plan, experience fighting together, experience in general, higher RR, higher average lvl.


It's likely impossible to set up fights, where both sides find it fair.

+1
You got the point, only problem is that people here won't listen and don't want to see it realistic as it is...

Sekunda wrote:Is a RR10 vs. RR10, wearing same outfit, playing the same class a fair fight? Most would agree "Yes".
But what if one of them has significant more experience, since the other bought his account?
Some would say it is, I say it isn't.

lol if someone want experience he have to play his char from level 1 to rr10, not to buy a rr10 account and have an excuse for be grouped and zerg solo like : sorry i bought this account im bad. If u dont want to be bad, play and xp ur char, its like that u learn to play it, not in buying one high rr. I play my sb since rr5 solo, its like that i learned how to manage the fight.RR4 stealther like infi or ns i can understand they duo or trio, i will never blame them but dont come try to find an excuse for high rr ppl who bought an account and are bad like a level 1.

Not everyone has the time and patience that others are willing to invest. In order to compete with those nerds you need to team up for sure. Let them cry and go drink a beer in the garden during the time they QQ and getting the best out of their character ^^
And gratz to everyone being a hero on a freeshard you are awesome...

Hurts to be terrible doesnt it

Oswaldo wrote:Hurts to be terrible doesnt it

Well Smartphones are awesome as well, cheers.

Orihiime wrote:

Sekunda wrote:Is a RR10 vs. RR10, wearing same outfit, playing the same class a fair fight? Most would agree "Yes".
But what if one of them has significant more experience, since the other bought his account?
Some would say it is, I say it isn't.

lol if someone want experience he have to play his char from level 1 to rr10, not to buy a rr10 account and have an excuse for be grouped and zerg solo like : sorry i bought this account im bad. If u dont want to be bad, play and xp ur char, its like that u learn to play it, not in buying one high rr. I play my sb since rr5 solo, its like that i learned how to manage the fight.RR4 stealther like infi or ns i can understand they duo or trio, i will never blame them but dont come try to find an excuse for high rr ppl who bought an account and are bad like a level 1.

Way to take things out of context... It was an extreme example of how things that might look fair, not necessarily are fair.

With your logic you could say:
- It's not my fault you didn't bring 10 extra friends
- It's not my fault you didn't spend 100 extra hours farming
- etc etc...

My point was not to blame anyone, but to stop the endless whines about this and that fight not being "fair", and everyone else but me ruining RvR, because I always do the right and fair things, but no one else does.

Having 20 poisoned weapons in your inventory is permitted, having 100 friends with you is permitted, grouping 30 stealthers is permitted, etc etc... everything will seem unfair to those who do NOT use the above, and fair to those who do use it.

Orihiime wrote:

Sekunda wrote:Is a RR10 vs. RR10, wearing same outfit, playing the same class a fair fight? Most would agree "Yes".
But what if one of them has significant more experience, since the other bought his account?
Some would say it is, I say it isn't.

lol if someone want experience he have to play his char from level 1 to rr10, not to buy a rr10 account and have an excuse for be grouped and zerg solo like : sorry i bought this account im bad. If u dont want to be bad, play and xp ur char, its like that u learn to play it, not in buying one high rr. I play my sb since rr5 solo, its like that i learned how to manage the fight.RR4 stealther like infi or ns i can understand they duo or trio, i will never blame them but dont come try to find an excuse for high rr ppl who bought an account and are bad like a level 1.

You can't seriously believe that doing pve is going to make someone better in rvr.

Agent00Spliff wrote:

Orihiime wrote:

Sekunda wrote:Is a RR10 vs. RR10, wearing same outfit, playing the same class a fair fight? Most would agree "Yes".
But what if one of them has significant more experience, since the other bought his account?
Some would say it is, I say it isn't.

lol if someone want experience he have to play his char from level 1 to rr10, not to buy a rr10 account and have an excuse for be grouped and zerg solo like : sorry i bought this account im bad. If u dont want to be bad, play and xp ur char, its like that u learn to play it, not in buying one high rr. I play my sb since rr5 solo, its like that i learned how to manage the fight.RR4 stealther like infi or ns i can understand they duo or trio, i will never blame them but dont come try to find an excuse for high rr ppl who bought an account and are bad like a level 1.

You can't seriously believe that doing pve is going to make someone better in rvr.

No, but bg, even if its zergy or what, u still learn how play ur char, and from rr4 to rr10, if u play ur char urself and dont whore it to everyone for get free rr, i think u still learn and improve ur skill to play ur char, and its not in buying rr10 char that u will buy the skill that the one who have up it to this rr had. sorry if my english is not all understandable

Sekunda wrote:This has always been an issue in RvR.

The RR10 <insert class> is having fun killing RR1-4 soloers, and it's fair, right? 1on1 after all...
Suddenly a RR3 <damage> and a RR4 <healer/CC> classes groups, and kill the RR10, who really has little chance.

So he calls out one of his guildies, and suddenly it's "fair" again, 2 RR10, vs. 2 RR4 (one gained a RR... )...

This continues till...:

The RR10 group think it's fair to roll over the RR4 group constantly, but when the RR4 group merges with another RR3 group, and wins a fight, suddenly the RR10 group think it's unfair that the RR3/4 groups are zerging.

Fair doesn't exist, it's a term that is unique to each and every individual.

Back on live I always felt like a big hot-shot, when my RR10, insanely expensive template, SM killed pretty much anyone I came across, even duos (even killed a whole freaking group, but template/RR/experience, oh and a small tiny twr might be a factor...). Or on my RR7 Valk, with 2 buff-bots...
Was it fair? Likely not. I was fighting RR5'ish, and also likely wearing poorer qual templates.

Is a RR10 vs. RR10, wearing same outfit, playing the same class a fair fight? Most would agree "Yes".
But what if one of them has significant more experience, since the other bought his account?
Some would say it is, I say it isn't.

I've watched a caba/sorc combo wreck ruin in Wilton, both were in TS in the best template they could get. Fighting even groups, and while that may seem unfair (to who?), they still won, because of: Template, Fast communication combined with a good plan, experience fighting together, experience in general, higher RR, higher average lvl.


It's likely impossible to set up fights, where both sides find it fair.

This
And noone is forced to be a good player who can compete with others, if they see they ll loose 1v1 to whatever reasons, its perfectly fine to group up. There is no reward for beeing an awesome player, Daoc is an easy game so get off of all ur high horses and face that u compete on a low lvl
Go play in a sports club with leagues of different skill, there u ll get fair games from time to time.