Trishin wrote:

Razzer wrote:Playing without buffbots and forcing people to play like they DON'T want is really something different.
(Non-existing) Buffbot is a "feature" but the will not to add a fair fight is an attitude.

Exactly how is that different? Some players want to play with buffbots? So exactly how is that rule not forcing people to play like they don't want?

You are able to choose between adding and not adding an opponent because you are human.
You can't buffbot because the fact of logging in a second account is not allowed.
Yes, you can say not adding is forbidden .. but it's not and this is not how fair 1vs1 works.
1vs1 lives from fair fights and fair players.

I can't see a violation against:

§3.3 Cooperation between players and realms
Deliberate cooperation between players of different realms is forbidden. The server/game concept states that the realms are in a never ending war against each other and there shall be no exception from this situation. Unintended cooperation between players (example: three players of different realms fighting) is of course allowed. As soon as players or groups of different realms start to organize their fighting, it becomes a rule violation.

or:

§3.4 Fights between players of different realms – arranged duels
Arranged duels between players of different realms are not allowed. The players are not allowed to organize or arrange their fighting. This is realmpoint-farming and is strictly prohibited.

All I see is a situation which happened every day on live servers when you play 1vs1 the fair way!

Galandriel2 wrote:whats the big problem with that decision?

often enough xrealmer friends support each others during they use teamspeak

how should a gamemaster objectively evaluate such a situation?

i had my own little problems with eleras in the past, but he treated me fair

In your case I dont think that the crossrealmer had to be friends

Just read what Runental wrotes and maybe you get the point. Tbh I would prefer breaking mezz while playing mid instead of adding some of your enemies..

I hate it when it comes to the "crossrealmer" discussions on threads.

Due to the fact I play(ed) all realms so far I have a lot of "friends" that don't add me if I am solo. I do not need to be on teamspeak all time with them. But in case I run fg and someone I know runs fg - ofc we fight in a normal manner against each other - beside the fact there will be 1-2 emotes after/during the fight. In Emain now I also don't see a point in giving RvR-Informations out - most of the time there is enough inc.
The only time I talked about RvR-Informations with other realms was in fact Agramon - but we did never decide to meet in some special place or stuff - it was just so few inc there that I went on IRC and told MB & Trauben that we are build a group and will be out soonish so they build a grp and fight against us.

+ Not all players from other realms that know me like me - if u play all 3 realms you have much more "personal" enemy's that enjoy farming you

The bigger problem here is that these rules are so vague it's just ridiculously open to interpretation. For example Trishin you said people misunderstand your buffbot rule all the time but honestly part of that is probably because of how it's written.

Why not just write something like "When playing on uthgard players will not simultaneously log accounts at any time. Players are restricted to one account per player at a time" instead of the paragraph you have which references buffbots over and over but also mentions dual logging but its hidden in a wall of text.

Even worse, is that your rules talking about "cooperation" are ridiculously vague. This isn't DAoC circa 2001 when you had servers like merlin with 3500 people at peak time. This is a small community from around the globe of players who most of the time recognize each other on sight in emain and know who is who. I don't even have to see their name in my log or realm rank on my screen to know that its Zacknafein, Thyrin, Runental, Comet, Priska, or any other number of players who are consistently out in RVR. Personally, i prefer not to play like certain Infs/SBs/Rangers who make 5+ man zergs at AMG all day. I like to get FAIR 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 but that is increasingly hard to come by.

I agree you should watch for arranged dueling especially when rez bots are involved because that is RP farming. But you shouldn't attempt to become the thought police and force people into a specific mode of play. I don't want to zerg everything in sight, i want to pick my fights. Thats why i made an inf.

Trishin wrote:2. It IS a written rule that coop between realms is not allowed. However unintended coop like 3-way battles are is okay - If that was the case here I don't know. Only Eleras knows that and I will not be the judge of that as I was not there. But yes, wrong interpretations does happen sometimes. We are aware of this and we try the best we can to avoid them.

You have made one questionable decision after another, and did very little to explain them (although after seeing the buffbot comparison it may be for the best), so please be so kind and answer us this so we have it here in writing, forever and for everyone to see:


ARE WE ALLOWED TO NOT ADD A FIGHT ON THIS SERVER?

ARE WE ALLOWED TO NOT INITIATE A FIGHT ON THIS SERVER?


That shouldn't be too hard to answer.

I agree with the above poster(s). If this is how the realm anti-cooperation rule is going to be interpreted and enforced by the staff, then it needs to be completely rewritten.

But it's rather unfortunate that this type of behavior of the OP(which, imo, is a hell of a lot more honorable than my playstyle, kudos) is punished.

To give an example circa 2002-2003: US DAoC Mid/Gawaine was heavily underpopulated for the majority of its existence. It often was the case that the Mids there would team up with one of the other realms, usually unintentionally(and sometimes even intentionally) to eke out some successful RvR action.

If you don't cooperate sometimes with one of the enemies, what's the point of having three realms, anyway?

As Runental put earlier: "the enemy of my enemy is my ally."

Certainly, I understand that 'highly organized' RP farming is contrary to the spirit of RvR. It may also be argued that 'honorable combat for the purpose of not adding' may also be contrary to the spirit of RvR, hence the bans. Certainly, as the OP alluded to, players get reputations for being honorable versus being 'adders', and that affects how they are treated as opponents, especially at soloer clash points such as Emain AMG.

But, if this is the direction in which the rules will be enforced from now on, it seems like a very significant change from how they were enforced last year when I joined Uthgard, but the rules have not reflected that change. In this case, the onus is directly on the staff. You have re-interpreted your own rules to suit a new purpose. You should change the rules to reflect that re-interpretation.

As for myself, this latest string of events(even though I am a visible character and soloing for me is treacherous anyway) has further deterred me from going to Emain, even if it's the only place for RvR at NA peak hours. Emain has(and always has, whether on Uthgard or Live) had its own set of unspoken rules for as long as I can remember.

And since right now, the unspoken rule of the player and the rule of the server are in direct conflict, I'd rather not go there and risk a ban for choosing how I would like to deal with an enemy.

TL:DR: If the staff changed their interpretation of their rules, they need to address this by rewriting their rules. To the OP Milakunis: I'm sorry you have to change the way you play. While I don't share your playstyle(I lean more towards that old-fashioned realm pride crap), I respect the way 'honorable' players like you and others enjoy your RvR experience, and it's a very sad day to see you forced into doing otherwise.

to finally make it clear:

this is not about adding or respecting people in 1 on 1, this is about making an alliance with another realm vs the third realm.
it wasn''t about anything else.
I don't care if people don't add a one on one, if they don't want it is ok for me.
But i will act if 2 realms fight 1.

- closed -

Nymeros wrote:

Trishin wrote:2. It IS a written rule that coop between realms is not allowed. However unintended coop like 3-way battles are is okay - If that was the case here I don't know. Only Eleras knows that and I will not be the judge of that as I was not there. But yes, wrong interpretations does happen sometimes. We are aware of this and we try the best we can to avoid them.

You have made one questionable decision after another, and did very little to explain them (although after seeing the buffbot comparison it may be for the best), so please be so kind and answer us this so we have it here in writing, forever and for everyone to see:


ARE WE ALLOWED TO NOT ADD A FIGHT ON THIS SERVER?

ARE WE ALLOWED TO NOT INITIATE A FIGHT ON THIS SERVER?


That shouldn't be too hard to answer.

Yes and yes

Have been said many times before so I am not sure why you need that clarified?