Apoc315 wrote:To do RvR you must have patience and wipe, wipe, wipe, wipe, and wipe again before winning the 90% of your incs. But this is hard to accept.

Riassuming: the problem is people's mind. Not the zones!

Agreed!

Vercinge wrote:Perhaps reduce each realm to 1 realm keep to defend and only 4 keeps in the frontier.

Also, as a side note, when NF was announced, I simply thought they would improve the keeps and leave the old lands. The NF keeps are nice. They are sometimes fun. If we could have NF keeps in the OF lands, that would be fun imo.

The GMs tried to do it, but they couldn't put NF Keeps in OF for a reason that i don't remember. But i remember very well when they said that they tried and couldn't, but they had successfully maintained the NF siege graphics and that, for me, was a great work. I don't know if anybody remembers the old siege weapons but those .. things .. really sucked.

Having 2 relics and 2 keep relics is a nice move imho. And is like OF was. Having 2 relic keeps created nice scenarios to the RvR, like we Mids trying to take the Alb relics but a sneaky bunch of hibs stole them from us without even buying rams... that was awkward for us but really fun for them.

Without 2 relic keeps per realm this couldn't be happen and i'm sure that if people that do PvE and stuff like that will come in RvR there will be new and nice episodes like that, making fun for everyone

Vercinge wrote:Perhaps a smaller frontier would be ok. But the OF has one thing NF doesen't have that that is a continious transistion from the realm to the frontier zone. That makes Emain FEEL like Hibernia, Hadrians FEEL like Albion and Odins FEEL like it is Midgard.

Also, I think the relics are important. Most people it might be correct is saying they don't care about the benifits of having them or not having them, but as a realm, it is very much a pride issue and a strong motivator for RvR.

Relics are necessary.

Perhaps reduce each realm to 1 realm keep to defend and only 4 keeps in the frontier.

Also, as a side note, when NF was announced, I simply thought they would improve the keeps and leave the old lands. The NF keeps are nice. They are sometimes fun. If we could have NF keeps in the OF lands, that would be fun imo.

We've been told by staff that the NF keeps can NOT be made to fit in OF.

Gil wrote:We've been told by staff that the NF keeps can NOT be made to fit in OF.

Sethor said that it would require another client patch. They'd have to change the OF maps slightly to accommodate the larger NF keeps and then release a new OF mod for download. However, I'm not sure if this is even legal under Mythic's EULA...

At any rate it would be a lot of work for the staff and I doubt enough players would get behind such a change to drive it forward.

It would seem that Uthgard has permanently regressed in regards to keep sieges. The fact that you need to add RP incentives for people to go out and defend only highlights how bad the situation is.

lets get the custom BG style agramon with fensalir faste as central keep back for a weekend, that was the most fun ever on uthgard! 6 FGs lvl 50 rr5+ all tring to kill fensalir in the middle of tiny agramon, those were the days ^^

Apoc315 wrote:...

Now to increase the RR of "casual players" from all the 3 realms is to zerg, and the perfect zone to zerg is Emain. Who wants 8v8 because can do 8v8, goes Odin's.

...

It's something else that could be found in the playstyle i said before.

So for the new/casual players that comes in RvR the only thing that they can do is Zerg. Keep raiding. DF RvR. Zerg again and so on until ...

But this take time and will. If people leave the RvR scene because "I don't want to wipe because of other people faults in the incs" (And believe me the 75% of the RvR players does such stupid thoughts)

Right, mostly the RR4-RR8 wannabe professionals ...
They blame and flame the noobs -like me!- without giving hints with a value so the noob can work on doing better. Whats left is a highly increased login interval.

Apoc315 wrote: or leave Thidranki at the RR3 (!), or want to be a "Pro and Strong player" from the first time he puts his nose outside the PK... well, if this kind of people don't change their minds it's gonna be always like this. With or without NF.

I maxed out all my RR on the BG's except the last one -failure-. While doing this, I didnt care about optimizing Equipment and max level to rock&rule in BG. I just did it becaus of the fun in PvP.

What we -my guildmate was with me until 50- realized was the e-sports attitude even in BG up the way to 50 increasing! So we did -what was wrong- leveling to 50 before maxing out RR in Thidranki ...
We thought just zerg in Emain -classic live like- ... WRONG!

Apoc315 wrote:To do RvR you must have patience and wipe, wipe, wipe, wipe, and wipe again before winning the 90% of your incs. But this is hard to accept.

Riassuming: the problem is people's mind. Not the zones!

/signed
The patience ist drasticly droping if the casuals dont even get support fighting the separation in the community -zerging-.
If we realy want more PPL fighting in oRvR dont get noobs motivation down by telling them:

- dont add
- max out RR
- get sc'd
- dont add
- build a fotm group
- zerg is no skill -who wants to be of no skill?-
- dont add

Zerg is collective intelligence. Its far more challenging then running small, not even because of the lag of verbal communication but of the mental setup on giving up the ego trip.

... well I wont give up, just increasing login interval.

Yep, we started here 10 (maybe even 11 now?) months ago, leveld till 50 in one week and stood in agramon back then with 1L5, and quickly realised... there is no such thing as zergs here, and if you add a fight you are a son of a [birds and flowers and stuff]

All expect you to respct theyr nice 8vs8 gank fights ... our luck was just we where enough to run 16 or even more slot from the beginning with just our guild, and didn't care a ****** about the flamers. So, we had lots of fun 'till RR 6.

And that is what i would suggest for every one starting in RvR, look for a community/build your own where people have same interests, and don't care about flames. With 16 slot you don't even need perfect setups, we startet with lvl 40+ and 2 healer for 16 people and stuff... more important is people don't give up after first wipe and stay motivated.

If you look for such a community... don't look into our direction any more.

By now the normal evolution in daoc of getting higher RR's transformed us into just another of the gank grps, with the little difference we never flame about add or enemys runing more than 8-slot.
But this will soon also vanish and i will be the last who doesn't care about such, same procedure as on every server and with everyone i played with

The problem is, holsten, that you guys were the only ones capable of raising such an amount of players.

Especially players under level 50.


Who in the right mind would ever prefer Emain over Thidranki at 40-49? Exactly, nobody unless they already have a guild with 16+ likeminded people.



You can advocate zergs all you want, but in reality you need to start on this server with a 20+ man guild from scratch if you intend to "zerg your way to RR8+". And in reality... nobody except you has such a thing and will have an even harder time establishing it him/herself on Uthgard (partially due to the setting).

Well, in hib there was schattenblatt very active some weeks ago, running 16-slot with just guildies. Hope they can keep this up on a more regular basis... and not just because we won some of the 8vs16 fights

It is not that hard to gather enough people in a guild, but it is a lot of work to keep all motivated, build the daily grps etc.
You will never make everyone happy with the grp he is in, have to leave some behind... sometimes it's more work than fun for the organisator, that's the main reason i stopped doing it, and hence our guild stopped running more than 8-slot

edit: and whats up with corvus albus? I set a lot of hopes into our good ol' arch-enemys from stonehenge and warhammer... but they keep playing bg rvr mostly?

@ LION

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that. Adding is mostly a shame for who does it. Add and Zerg are 2 different things. Add is lame, Zerg is not lame if you fight a 16vs16 or more. When the zerg starts, the groups who want to do 8v8 will go in another zone... easy.

In this case people who can't have a Guild-Gank squad can have nice fights without being insulted by their realm, raise their RR and keep fighting until they reach enough skill/RR to do 8v8. The 8v8 gank squads will go to another zone and GG to everyone.

I'm wondering why this is still not happening

(I guess that the PvE/BG users population doesn't read the forums)

Zerging as a concept isn't too bad, if the sides are balanced.

The main problem is that on a server with around 800players, about 100max actually RvR - and that is usually at relic raids.

So most of the time the zerg forces are not in the least bit equal, which results in 1 side dominating for a few runs and then people logging out... which is even more boring

If people want good zerg fights like back in the day, the rvr population needs to increase from all realms