The problem is Thid:
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we get your point(s). very clearly.
but by logic it -wont- work. even if you can get, lets say, 50 ppl between 40 and 50 to go into the rvr zones to exp there, providing spots large and fast enough to sustain a safety in numbers zerg like that, they still will be very easy to wipe for one or two high RR groups and thus, pushing the already stronger groups even higher while not increasing the chances of the lows actually makeking any rp. 1 AoE mezz during a pull is enough to get an exp group killed without using any form of damage attacks. and especially low level chars dont have the RAs to shake them off. they will stand in CC for the whole duration, except the ones getting hit by mobs or the enemy players. and they will drop extremly fast since its 1 lowlevel vs 5 lvl 50+ mobs + 1 fg lvl 50 rr5+ chars. what are the odds to even damage any of the enemies? pretty much zero. it will not work this way. the "increase the amount that can be won" approach is like pouring a ple of sweets into a lion den and say to little kids, look, all the sweets you can wish for, and only a tiny bit of risk. wont work since even the kids understand that it doesnt matter if there is one candy or a ton of it if the damger stays the same. if you give the kids enoug power to actually fight the lions, then you might get em to enter the den to reach the sweets. and that is what we need. the exp is fine (aside the slow respawn in pve). the rp is fine. the zones are fine. the patronage is missing. the realm unity is missing. the "we dont care if our realm mates get farmed as long as we get some 8vs8" mentality is there and not fine. the "common, lets stick together and kill the enemy zergs" mentality is missing - but not from the new players^^ |
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You are wrong, BlackCougar... Fins/unpronouncable name for bears/giants in Emain, Ants /Jellys, pixies, leprekeens, spiders, bears, ... in Agra were all well-used spots and if you had some at least some form of cunning and environment awareness you would manage to live through even lvl 50 attacks. I've experienced it myself and seen it happen long enough. Making such spots attractive enough definately DOES attract players to OF and it will be even better now since you have less chance of getting killed in OF than you had in Agra because zones are just much bigger and spread out. The comparison of kids vs lions isn't in line with reality. Replace those kids with hungry hyena's who greatly outnumber those lions and you have a more realistic comparison. They stand a chance, even though lions are superior, with the right teamwork they can take them down, which is where the real candy comes from, from their dead bodies.
Exp is fine, but there's no incentive to go to OF, in fact all incentives to go anywhere are outside of OF. The only reason people currenlty go to OF is to take a keep preferably with as less resistance as possible to get DF so they can xp there with their twinks, resulting in even less OF activity afterwards. Rp is fine for now, though IF you would remove Thidranki the way it is now, you would need to give players under 50 who decide or manage to kill enemies in OF credit for the risk they take in order to do so. The zones are fine except for the spawns and/or spawn rates. The patronage of what is missing? 8v8 players to say "hey, come join us even though your character and playstyle is completely below par, which will only make us lose (our time and fun)"? It's not up to other people to change their preferred playstyle in order for others to be able to enjoy theirs. This will never work and will never be a solution. Those players will quit before they zerg and you really can't blame em for it. The realm unity is missing because people have different playstyles and are currently all divided up so that OF has become the resort for a specific playstyle (8v8 mentatlity) whereas anyone with any other mentality (being either casual raiding/soloing/casual RvRing/smallmanning) simply avoids this and goes to BGs because there is no incentive for them to take the hard route when you can just as easily take the easy route in BGs. Creating incentives for OF to be able to combine these playstyles will also increase realm unity. You can NOT improve realm unity without bringing more players and playstyles together (for example solo/smallman roaming around friendly xp spots to gank enemies is definately a form of realm unity improvement, just as the possiblity to run out and know you'll find action of your own strength would help improving realm unity since you don't need to double check your RR and setup before you run out) The 8v8 mentality is there and is fine. Nobody forces you to have their mentality, however, the problem is that currently OF is the only place where that mentality is possible, whereas any other mentality is simply a waste of time since you can do that kind of playstyle a LOT better in BGs. Again, you can't expect people to change their mentality in order for other mentalities to work. It's the simple fact that players with other mentalities just don't go to OF because all other players with similar mentalities go to BGs/quit that is the root of that problem. The zerg mentality is not missing, it's simply not present in OF. The only way to get it back there is to give incentives for such players to stop playing in BGs and go do their thing in Emain. That is what happened on Monday i think it was and most of the players in those zergs had fun. Where did they come from? BGs/alts/... Few 8v8 players were in there apart from Anguish and most of the ones who still were did not enjoy it (check the thread). OF allows for 8v8 and zerg to coëxist because there are 3 primary RvR zones instead of one, which is why it definately is a way better RvR setting than Agramon where zergs would completely destroy 8v8 options and 8v8 would cancel out a lot of potential zerg options just like things are happening now in Emain. The only things missing however is the fact that there are not enough players in end RvR to support that zergtype RvR and seperated 8v8 RvR. Now we know there's plenty of 8v8 action, however there's barely zerg action. How do you incite zergs? Big rewards for weak players from killing enemy players so that they form up and hunt. At first for fun, xp and lvl 50, later at 50 for higher RR and fun. WHEN you have coëxisting 8v8, solo and smallman AND zerg RvR, Relic Raids will regain their original meaning since 8v8 players won't be as against zerging as they are now since they know that they can still just get clean action should they want to, creating an OPTION for them to join instead of being forced to join since it's the only form of RvR around or log out. As we all know, forcing people to do something usually doesn't work as good as giving them the option, which is probably why the removal of the later BGs isn't that good of an idea anyway! 
Duh! I'm sorry for being so late on this one!  
So, keep the BGs (at least wilton and thid's level range and RR caps  ), make xping in OF and especially hunting enemies in OF more rewarding than xping or RvRing in BGs/DF, combined with a better solo and smallman environment and you will make OF flourish as never seen before (except on live back in the day ).
The question is, like Weia said, how? That's where I have put up some suggestions, but there's numerous other possibilities aswell of course, as also mentioned by Weia and the list goes on as long as there's inspiriation. The big question is which options staff actaully approve of and why. |
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The staff has limited itself to ... classic .. leaving nothing but tiny options to improve fun while having the full spectrum of options to kill fun ...
Greetz Nes Inactive
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I disagree, I find classic fun so.. now where does that leave us? with 2 different opinions and no real arguments.. lets try and stay constructive okay? |
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That's just depending on what you see as 'classic' of course. But yea let's keep it to finding ways to attract different playstyles to OF. |
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its all good and well and i agree on most parts.
diversion in rvr, many individual groups depend heavily on a large pool of support classes you can draw from. still there is a big big big lack of those key classes to consider. i leave out solo/smallgroup action completly since they cant do much without zerg protection anyway. check the classes throughout the level ranges. you have some bards and druids in braemar range. a few less in wilton range. by the time it gets towards 50 there is a real lack of those classes. the herald lists 127 lvl 50 bards. i wonder where they all are. they arent actually there. you need 1 bard per group, no matter the size, levelrange and rr, going out without speed and mezz (and endu in combat) is not an option. you can do with secondary speed and without mezz - again - if you have the protection of other groups. as the army you field gets bigger you can do with less healers per group, but put more pressure on the groups that have healers. eg on relic raids we use bards with sometimes lvl 30+ just to have some sort of speed and endu. most groups run without a primary healer. many dont even have a secondary. the fact that more often then not the 2 things that keep a group sitting at the boder keep is because they cant find either a bard or a druid or both worries me. those two classes have the most stressful job in rvr and even more so facing bigger / stronger / higher / better teamwork / better setup groups on their own. especialy in pugs loosing the first mezz can seriously hurt the groups morale, since that is your main trumph card until all players have a sufficient RR. if the healers cant do their work for whatever reason, mostly due to confusion, unfamilarity with the other players reactions to certain situations, missing ras, missing voice communications, missing expierence etc, it will seriously hurt morale, especially if that group was actually bigger/stronger. ive seen some low RR pug get wiped by strong duos/trios because of some or all of above reason. again, safety in numbers. some never play in bgs, they just rush to 50 to see the big playground. it takes times to learn the rules of 50 rvr - and only haveing ppl with no clue in the group doesnt help either. you have to give new players a chance to catch up on skill and knowledge. no one started out as SG player^^ zerg does that. the more expierence you get, the lower in numbers can you go. the dynamics of 50 rvr are quite different from pve and even from the bgs and many feel lost and/or overwhelmed entering 50 rvrs. a couple bad runs can ruin it for them. im a realistic pesimist (or a pesimistic realist) and those are serious issues for me. we can try whatever the staffs think might work, but keep in mind that the "classic live copy" they are going for limits the options big time and that the players hold the key to a healthy rvr population. question is, weather or not we can get that unity we need often enough to make it stick. i dont ask that the sgs replace they players with complete newbs. i dont ask that they always should drag along 4 man groups. i ask that if you have a strong group and there are a lot of enemies around, that you say yes more often then now if your asked if you might like to run with a second group. with 4-8 enemy fgs sending a single pug out... they wont stay in of for long^^ PS: i realize that my arguments are very focused on hibernia atm. reason is that im a hib and those are the issues i see. and i feel that the other realms work better most times. and that most of the old live SG players are stuck in hibernia and refuse to gang up to match the enemy numbers. yes, we had some big scale lately, but still, those where initiated and lead by the "better players". the patronage i was talking about. allowing weaker players to tail you, fight with the support of stronger players and learn in a somewhat safer enviorment. fact is, if you send a single pug out and they meet any sg or more then 8 the fight is over so quickly that they dont really learn anything. and start to give the blame around. since there is nothing else they can do. i see myself getting frustrated many times when we KNOW from the intel our rangers/ns (thumbs up to you guys) give in broad that there is NO enemy group running by themself but you have basicly one 3 fg groups per enemy realm and 2fg and a 1fg+4 out there, and i KNOW that the pug im in cant beat ANY of them, that they cant even kill a single player from any of those groups, and that we have 4fgs ourselfs but each one leaves dl on their own and 10-15 minutes later they are right back in dl. and that barely anyone is willing to join forces, even if they themself, teamplay, voicechat and high rr and all, dont stand a chance on their own. thats the main reason i avoid rvr, even though i generally enjoy it and have a very good group char for it. i dont have the time/concitency for a sg and running with single pugs is just a continious replay of getting steamrolled for hours, a general bad atmosphere in the chat if there is chatting at all and a tendency to log out frustrated every wipe. |
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Well you need to get a more PuG friendly environment of course, which starts with the (rewarding!) possibility to smallman or solo in the first place since those are most friendly to PuG playstyles.
Saying that zergs are the way to gain skill is somewhat doubtful, but I get what you're trying to say. |
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It worked like that Pre NF also, so why not add old BG maps and the ports like it did ... would be very nice, CODERs Please add it to the TO DO list and in front of everithing else |
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you can ****** off your players only so much.
porting every death into the bgs without /area chat for rezz and 5+ fgs per realm.. sure. the old players might put up with it for a few days, the new ones for mabye 2-3 runs^^ thought the goaö was to increase playernumbers and rvr activity. |
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ROFL, Battleground timed ports. This is priceless.
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Maybe a 10 minute timer on /rel would be nice too. |
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