§3.8 Logging in two accounts - buffbotting
Logging in two ore more accounts simultaneously is always forbidden. There are no exceptions. This explicitly includes typical buffbots and all kind of dual logins like crafters and mule characters. Any violation against this rule will be punished. The usage of a buffbot will result (besides the punishment for all accounts of the player) in a permanent ban for the buffbot. If a staffmember suspects a player of dual logging, the suspected person(s) have to obey his orders (buffbot detection tests). If a player ignores this, logs out, or out of sudden goes linkdead with one or both characters, it will be considered as an illegal dual login. There are no exceptions.

Does this mean that say if I have friends over and have a mini-lan party, or even simply have my wife play; that I could be suspect of violation of this rule? How can I ensure that I will not have any problems regarding this, if I do get my wife into this game and play on a regular basis?

Like in the other 153 threads about 2 ppl one internet-connection said: just dont go longtime afk, better log out

Was on ventrilo with vex and his wife last night... a few mins before the server reset. They got sent to "Jail" with no test or anything... message and got an automated reply of something to the tune of buff bots are not allowed.

Considering all said and done, the "don't be idle for a long time" doesn't sit well. I am a caster, so I have a bit of down time for my toon to restore power, so Ill alt tab out, take a leak, or whatever and return.

I was told there were certain tests done for those suspected of buff botting as like both toons running in figure 8's at the same time, and both counting down from 100 as fast as they could. So its just suspected and than jailed?

I mean, this doesn't seem like any sort of great criteria for banning at all. What if I have my wife play with me, or if I have a few friends over? What kind of guarantees will I have not to have my account banned even though I am 100% legitly following the rules.

I understand there are false positivies that do occur, but no checks other than an IP check sort of makes the ruling seem way less than concrete.


Ref: viewtopic.php?f=44&t=25477

The tests are usually performed in Jail.

If you are clean you will get out again.

Trishin wrote:The tests are usually performed in Jail.

If you are clean you will get out again.

This was about 10 mins or so before the reset, thats why I didn't bother to log in at all. So I was shooting the breeze with the person in question with his wife on ventrilo when this occured. There was no test.

Again, if there was no test involved this time, when is the test going to be applied? Is it via discretion?

I am arguing this point in two areas:
1. Why were they not given the test?
2. What would I have to do to appeal a ban say if I am banned in a likewise manner and not tested?

If he was truly buff botting, then I wouldn't be arguing this point at all. I just do not want to have my wife play or have people over and have issues. You invest all of this time leveling and then have your account pulled from under you sorta stinks, ya know?

GM's are fair. Jailed is not banned. No idea why you got jailed 10 minutes before reboot. Normally a test will follow which you have to succeed in order to prevent a ban.

Omega posted this for me while I was at work today. This happened to my wife and I last night, no test was given, we were afk getting some food when we got ported in, as i was sitting back down at the pc i noticed we were in the 'jail' right as the server was going off line. And now we are banned.

Can I assume we were jailed and brought in because 2 connections from the same IP, even thought its 2 different people on 2 different computers?

How do we handle this now? How can we prevent this in the future?

As said multiple times on the forums: If you need to afk while being 2 persons on, log out. Only way to prevent this from happening.

Okay, fair enough, even though it was probably only for 5 min I'll keep that in mind for the future, but what about the situation at hand right now?

Obvious the rules are well thought out and put in place for a reason: fairness to all.

Granted most rules, in terms of these where one can get banned, have some sort of check and balance.

Blue wrote:GM's are fair. Jailed is not banned. No idea why you got jailed 10 minutes before reboot. Normally a test will follow which you have to succeed in order to prevent a ban.

Based on these circumstances, outlined above, the check was not performed. I would assume the logs would show this to be the case. Again, I am just talking about the circumstance, as I was told. Therefore, I am sort of probing for a definitive response.

Trishin wrote:As said multiple times on the forums: If you need to afk while being 2 persons on, log out. Only way to prevent this from happening.

On this matter, which seems to be one of the biggest hot button issues, enough to have on every login yellow text as MOTD, why is this logging out thing only post on the forums rather than on the clearly defined rule set that is linked right from index? I understand the spirit of the rule and I read through all of the rules before I came on the server.

My problem is that being new, one is not likely to be going to search and scour the forums for all of these specific rulings. With this "As said multiple times on the forums ..." seems like an addendum to the rule. I mean, at what point if I have friends over, or if my wife plays, I have to log every time I have to use the bathroom or get a bottle of suds? I understand the rules are strict for a reason. But, I also find it quite irksome that I cannot enjoy this game with fellow family members in the household. I am under the impression it is more like: 'guilty till proven innocent.'

This is something I am testing the waters about. I do not buff bot, I do not act like an arse, and I do not mess with anybody. This is not a really big issue. As I understand, these characters were both low level. Level 10 character is gone, main cannot play for 7 days. No real big loss there. My concern is this: what if there something more pressing when I invest some serious time into a toon and get it to 50? As I explicitly asked before: "2. What would I have to do to appeal a ban say if I am banned in a likewise manner and not tested?" I feel as if there is no appeal process to these decisions. I understand its your server, your rules, but I wonder where the check and balances are?

I am just arguing a point and I mean no disrespect if I may indeed come off that way. I am rather curious to know what I am exactly dealing with when it comes to adminship before I put some serious time into a toon. God forbid if anything does happen, or occur to me specifically where there is some sort of play in a rule (and the only specifics are buried in a forum of which I read more sporadically compared to the time in which I am playing).

To put it more blunt and concisely: not tested (of which occurred right before a server restart) + no apparent appeal process = thats it, done see, you later

Also, was subsequently learned: there is an addendum to the rule that is only on the forums, where you must log out for whatever afk reason in a vaguely defined time frame.

I have the feeling that you are not really consistent with your arguments.

You say you read the rules, then dual-logged from the same IP, then got jailed, and then checked in the forums if you did something wrong? No offense, but if you did know that buffbotting/dual-logging is not allowed (there is even a pop-up you have to explicitly accept on first login after character creation), you might want to check that before you continue playing.

Abydos' comment

"As said multiple times on the forums ..."

refers to opening a new post before checking for old ones. Even though the forum search function is pretty bad, using it and searching, e.g., for "two computers", would have brought up multiple threads discussing this very point.

NeoOmega wrote:Level 10 character is gone, main cannot play for 7 days. No real big loss there.

I don't get this one completely. If your MAIN cannot play for 7 days, are you sure the other one was your wife's and not a buffbot?


But as a little relief: If you check some threads in the "Bans" section of the forum, you will find there are tons of BB/duallog bans every week, just because people are too lazy to read the rules and just start off as they are used to play from other servers. When I started here some years ago, I set up 2 accounts simulaneously, by the time I read the "no duallogging" popup, I was already standing in Mag Mell with 2 characters. Well, I dumped one account and continued the other....
All I'm saying is, there are so many violations in the lvl 1-20 range that you cannot expect thorough checks IF one of the characters is obviously buffing another one AND afk at the same time (even if only 5 minutes). Honestly, I haven't seen any duallog/BB permabans at all in the lvl50 range. Perma-bans only occur for the buffbots, if you are caught dual-logging, e.g. when trading to yourself, both characters will probably get a time-ban, and be fine afterwards.

And one more thing: I once did a Tajendi raid with a group where two players were apparently playing from the same IP. The GM who observed it (Casinii, where are you now ) waited for the whole raid until we finished Churiel until performing the 1player/2player check, so you see GMs respect the players greatly and you are not "guilty until proven innocent", but rather "checked with as few disturbance as possible" usually.

dual-logging is not allowed (there is even a pop-up you have to explicitly accept on first login after character creation)

So you're saying it is against the rules to have 2 people in the same house hold play at the same time? That seems highly unreasonable.

My whole point is: We were jailed right as the server was reset and there was NO test, which we would have easily passed because we were two different people playing at the same time.

You say you read the rules, then dual-logged from the same IP, then got jailed, and then checked in the forums if you did something wrong? No offense, but if you did know that buffbotting/dual-logging is not allowed (there is even a pop-up you have to explicitly accept on first login after character creation), you might want to check that before you continue playing.

I do not think you fully understand me. The rule states that:

§3.8 Logging in two accounts - buffbotting
Logging in two ore more accounts simultaneously is always forbidden. There are no exceptions. This explicitly includes typical buffbots and all kind of dual logins like crafters and mule characters. Any violation against this rule will be punished. The usage of a buffbot will result (besides the punishment for all accounts of the player) in a permanent ban for the buffbot. If a staffmember suspects a player of dual logging, the suspected person(s) have to obey his orders (buffbot detection tests). If a player ignores this, logs out, or out of sudden goes linkdead with one or both characters, it will be considered as an illegal dual login. There are no exceptions.

Thusly specifically detailed as illegal: (1) Buff Botting, (2) Dual login to craft, and (3) Mules
The rule does not define as illegal: (1) Having friends over, (2) Playing with the wife

Then, if suspected: If a staffmember suspects a player of dual logging, the suspected person(s) have to obey his orders (buffbot detection tests).

My argument also states that the above was not carried out.


You also go on by saying:

All I'm saying is, there are so many violations in the lvl 1-20 range that you cannot expect thorough checks IF one of the characters is obviously buffing another one AND afk at the same time (even if only 5 minutes).

So that means this rule is not carried out in a fair, firm, and consistent manner? So if suspected at level 1-20, bypass check and send to jail?

And one more thing: I once did a Tajendi raid with a group where two players were apparently playing from the same IP. The GM who observed it (Casinii, where are you now ) waited for the whole raid until we finished Churiel until performing the 1player/2player check, so you see GMs respect the players greatly and you are not "guilty until proven innocent", but rather "checked with as few disturbance as possible" usually.

Seemingly, that discretion was not applied here.

I don't get this one completely. If your MAIN cannot play for 7 days, are you sure the other one was your wife's and not a buffbot?

She does not play as much as he does, whereas he has a 40-something character.


You sir (or ma'am), no offence, are also inconsistent.



Let me be more clear: The check was not performed. This ban came right before a server reset. What is the appeal process to such things, if anything?

Secondly, it has been increasingly clear that say if I have my wife play, or if I have friends over; especially if I am lower level, I will be a target of the GM's. Regardless of whether or not they are on seperate computers.

Well my wife and i have been on this server for a very long time and during that time we have never been accused of dual logging. I guess that we have been checked out at some point, but not once have we buff-botted or even given anyone reason to suspect we are cheating.

If you play honestly and by the rules, you wont have a problem.

If your friends got sent to jail, then they must have shown some suspicious behavior that warranted closer inspection. The fact that it was before a server reset is neither here nor there, as the GM in question might not have known a reset was pending.

Has the GM in question offered any reasoning behind the jail?

I know that normally, conversations like this are not allowed on the forum and GM's state that they do not need to justify their decisions with anyone.

borog wrote:Has the GM in question offered any reasoning behind the jail?

Negative. No reply to PM.

borog wrote:I know that normally, conversations like this are not allowed on the forum and GM's state that they do not need to justify their decisions with anyone.

Can't ask questions? Can't even question the authority, decision, or appeal? Wow.