We've had a thread about PA damage and according to blue it is out of line. If i remember correctly blue said that PA does not take into account the ABS of armor which is why Inf/NS/SB hit for near cap damage on any target.

I'm curious then. Is bow damage similarly out of line or is it considered "working as intended" ?

Exhibit A - R10 Ranger who is most likely hybrid spec. The vast majority of rangers who spec hybrid do not go above 35 bow because with current uthgard game mechanics there is simply no point in doing so. Thus, we can safely assume the ranger pictured here is 35 + 20 bow yielding a composite bow spec of 55. As an inf with 44 + 15 CS my largest PAs are around 700 (composite 59). PA range is 150. Critshot range is......

Someone tell me this is "balanced" (i have total 1584hp).

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/59/sshot077.jpg/

Edit: What seriously annoys me more then anything about this though is the fact that due to MoS game mechanics an archer can land this on me everytime without fail and at no risk of being caught by me first. Subsequently the fight always starts with me at between 30-50% hp and the archer has more hp then, if theyre a ranger they can melee almost as good as me, access to IP, PD thus giving them effectively 2-2.5x as many HP as me to begin with. Not to mention that even a 50CS R11 NS/SB/Inf will not hit that hard with PA as what you see in this screenshot. Furthermore, PA is a 150 range frontal style whereas critshot is a 1900+range (or if against a stealther then roughly 900-1100 range) ability that hits HARDER and requires ZERO positioning or worry about lag.

In essence this sums up everything wrong with the current archer design, especially rangers. Easier to play in EVERY regard and virtually no weaknesses. Seriously, it's beyond ridiculous how bad it is. For the love of god could we stop with worldbuilding and focus on class balance. I will happily lose viper3 just to see rangers brought in line for once.

Edit2: Scouts and hunters could use some love however. Since theyre almost entirely free RPs in the current design.

That ranger of what i remember was full bow spec or just really high bow spec. At least 45 spec + 20 , so 65 spec. Plus im sure he is using RA to up his damage stat, as a full bow spec can not melee at all or little chance. Also, since this is a critshot, which means his normal shot was only about 300, vs leather and a max of 16% resist.

PA requires line up in stealth.

Critshot requires the target to not be moving, excluding moving in stealth or ladders. not in combat, A 20% lower draw time, can miss because of evade/block and will destealth you sometimes.

Only thing CS is better about PA is that you can use it out of stealth. But id rather give that up, to make a CS each fight land.

Now try Critshot vs a tank/high armor class vs using PA. There is no 700 Critshot.

Well i was moving in that shot. I NEVER stand still on my infiltrator because of exactly what you said about critshot and it still hurts like hell. even if im camping in one spot i move in small circles or strafe

Interesting how he gets a critical hit on a critshot. If I'm not mistaken this should not be possible (http://daoc2.catacombs.com/forum.cfm?Th ... CMainForum)

You shouldnt be able to get a Crit on a Critshot. That was fixed awhile ago, then i started hearing roamers that you can get them again, but i havent gotten any yet, but i dont have a high crit chance with RA yet, so i havent noticed. If its broken again, someone should make a valid report.

Oviously.

Eclipsed wrote:That ranger of what i remember was full bow spec or just really high bow spec. At least 45 spec + 20 , so 65 spec.

I don't play here anymore and I'm still annoyed by your Ranger white-knighting. The difference in bow damage between a 35 spec hybrid and a 50 spec "sniper" is tiny. Even with aug dex III a sniper spec Ranger will do only ~15% more bow damage than a hybrid. Tzaaa learned this which is why he respec'd to hybrid. Doing 700 damage crits and kicking ass in melee is better than doing 900 damage crits and being a helpless gimp when you get caught.

The only way to fix archer (read: Ranger) imbalance on this server is to implement OF RAs, or custom nerfs.

Custom nerfs/fixes are probably the only way to go because Scouts are completely helpless vs anyone with purge and hunters are almost as helpless.

OF RA's won't really fix anything though. especially since there is no defense penetration on uthgard so dodger2/3 assassins will have perma 50% evade that you can't do anything about. sure viper will go away and that is one of the more OP RAs currentling in the game but i don't think OF RAs are the solution. Custom RAs with custom class fixes are the only way to achiever anything remotely resembling balance in my opinion.

Without buffbots assasins are already close to the evade cap. So dodger will not be much help for them, unless they choose to gimp themself on the stats they can get.

But anyway, if you dont like rangers, then just hib as an NS, if your not already. Or actually find valid bugs. But most of these are about those who die from a ranger, which there is plenty of them, as the ranger is prob the better archer to be. But then many classes of each realm has a better of the realms. And the past forum promoting of rangers, has lead to many rangers, making it look like a bigger issue then it really is.

Its like if X class kills you, once in a blue moon, and you see X class one in a blue moon also. Its not a big deal. That X class could be OP to the point of many bugs, but if you die from X class once and a blue moon, because you dont face them often, its not reported or cared about. But if X class is over played and you see them all the time and die all the time because of that. Then they are a big problem. It doesnt matter how OP they are.

Take class Y, isnt OP, about normal. Never see them much, so a death by them is no big deal. Once awhile youl get double teamed by that class, no big deal, just leechers. But then a volley bug or another bug comes out and there is millions of them, which also sets the scene for alot of leeching / assisting. So now you die more because there is more, and even more because there is more around to assist each other, since they are ranged attacks.

I see assasins out do most enemys, way more then a ranger could in the same kind of situations. Only thing broken on rangers right now, that i know of is a possible critshot issue, which is a bow issue.

Mauriac wrote:...What seriously annoys me more then anything about this though is the fact that due to MoS game mechanics an archer can land this on me everytime without fail and at no risk of being caught by me first...Furthermore, PA is a 150 range frontal style whereas critshot is a 1900+range (or if against a stealther then roughly 900-1100 range) ability that hits HARDER and requires ZERO positioning or worry about lag...

As Eclipsed already mentioned, there´s several conditions to land a CS. You can also be destealthed while drawing, missing your CS and even lose camouflage without hitting the target.
And on Mos5 your range vs another sneak is ~750range, no idea what you´re talking about 900-1100range?

Sadly there´s still broken archery mechanics but barely sources to prove it...

hmm damage is ok .... but CS shouldn't crit and there's the difference PA can crit.
CS is calculated as normal shot with 100%crit => normal damage*2

Eclipsed wrote:Without buffbots assasins are already close to the evade cap. So dodger will not be much help for them, unless they choose to gimp themself on the stats they can get.

no because in order to reach the evade cap you need both 250 dex (easy to get) and 250 quickness (not easy to get on classic). the only reason assassins maintain a high evade rate is because there is no defense penetration on uthgard but it doesn't matter because everyone elses defense is similarly boosted and in terms of defense i would love to have access to studded and PD.

But anyway, if you dont like rangers, then just hib as an NS, if your not already. Or actually find valid bugs. But most of these are about those who die from a ranger, which there is plenty of them, as the ranger is prob the better archer to be. But then many classes of each realm has a better of the realms. And the past forum promoting of rangers, has lead to many rangers, making it look like a bigger issue then it really is.

How can you seriously say that? Rangers scale better then any class with RR. Their damage coupled with access to damage mitigating like PD with IP, access to bow damage which btw is far from gimp makes them the most well rounded class for rvr on uthgard. seriously tell me one weakness they have? They have escapability (see RR5/Speed burst) they have the best stealth (camo + MOS mechanics) they have access to DW with the best styles in the CD line (better then LA/DW). they have self damage add coupled with access to bow for ranged damage that even with 35 spec will hit as hard as a PA against anything wearing cloth or leather AND your supposed "counter" being assassins has zero chance of actually opening on you with their highest damage styles whereas the opposite is true. Seriously, rangers are not god mode but if there was one class on uth at the top of the food chain they're it. And if you think viper3 makes up for all of it think again. Ive had kyounn hit me for 180 with AF buff running while my biggest hit ever against her is 105 because of PD. Usually it's in the 95 range.

Its like if X class kills you, once in a blue moon, and you see X class one in a blue moon also. Its not a big deal. That X class could be OP to the point of many bugs, but if you die from X class once and a blue moon, because you dont face them often, its not reported or cared about. But if X class is over played and you see them all the time and die all the time because of that. Then they are a big problem. It doesnt matter how OP they are.

You are completely missing the point. It has nothing to do with "omg rangers kill me more then anyone therefore they are OP". no dude, they ARE OP and anyone who spent the time to watch rvr would realize it. see above.

I see assasins out do most enemys, way more then a ranger could in the same kind of situations. Only thing broken on rangers right now, that i know of is a possible critshot issue, which is a bow issue.

example? Offhand i can think of SMs and maybe shield classes but then again i've seen rangers take down shield classes just fine in rvr without the need for their bow. the only thing it would seem to me that you have t oworry about it is WoC but then again so do we and you get IP so heh.

@Mauriac

250 dex and 250 qui will not get you to 50 evade cap. That comes to about 45% evade. Actually without any buffs on NS, Infi and SB and just the +75 to your stats, youl have 42% evade. What stats give you tword evade is little, so even getting 250 or more, will help you little, when it comes to evade. Its your evade 7 (35%) which helps. Rangers only get evade 3 (15%).

The ranger melee damage is in the same line as NS and other assasins, just weaker styles. But then you have to consider the better armor. But then you also have to consider the 35% more evade the assasin has. You may get hit harder at times, but youl evade more then a ranger will. Now yes dual wielding will cut that in half, but youl cut the rangers in half too. Rangers get about 26% evade, vs Assasins 42%+

Yes rangers get camo, while its down they are at a disadvantage for 10min. So every 10 min after a fight, they would have to hide to keep that advantage, or else they suffer vs detect hidden.

This is the problem with most ranger OP cry threads. They ignore any positive skills there class gets and only looks at what rangers get. Like there class has nothing, while rangers have all these tools.

And this is why many of them die, there is useful tools they get and rangers do have disadvantages, just like they do. Exploit it, dont go whine about selective things.

All theses threads say the same thing, none have any valid points , so nothing happens. Time to ignore this one too.

Yes rangers get camo, while its down they are at a disadvantage for 10min. So every 10 min after a fight, they would have to hide to keep that advantage, or else they suffer vs detect hidden.

how are they disadvantaged? because an assassin has a base 50 unit more detection range then archers? except you forget one thing. no assassin specs beyond MoS3 while most stay at mos2 while all archers get at least mos4. the reason for this is simple.

For archers - MoS helps you detect archers and assassins.
For assassins - Mos helps you detect archers.

Same skill. Same cost. Half the benefit. Which leads us to the current state of the game where regardless of whether or not you have camo up you're going to detect an assassin first. Always. IF you have camo up then the assassin is not going to detect you at all until you attack.

This is the problem with most ranger OP cry threads. They ignore any positive skills there class gets and only looks at what rangers get. Like there class has nothing, while rangers have all these tools.

I'm stating facts. I get slightly better melee damage and have less tools, no range, worse defense and worse stealth detection. I would state the reverse is true that here again is someone refusing to accept the fact that rangers are far and away the best rvr class on uthgard.

And this is why many of them die, there is useful tools they get and rangers do have disadvantages, just like they do. Exploit it, dont go whine about selective things.

Who is whining? I do pretty damn well with what i have but you act as if assassins are somehow your archer nemesis whereas the truth is only a handful of them give rangers any semblance of a good fight. The vast majority are free RPs. I've used numerous different tactics and tools and tricks and while some have worked and some haven't the fact remains i always have been and always will be at a SEVERE disadvantage compared to rangers in the current game format on uthgard. Perhaps you don't admit it because no one likes to think they play the easiest class but hey, the truth is the truth.

Mauriac,

You seem like a new guy here so I'll give you some advice. Before you start to try to discuss something ranger/archer related with Eclipsed you may want to search for his forum posts, you'll find out he's kind of like a lobbyist for rangers and chimes in whenever they are mentioned (not to mention some other things you will find out about his general Uthgard RvR knowledge). If you can stomach it then it's worth a try, will save you some time you can spend on more useful things.

who told you guys im 35 bow and doing 700 or 1000 dmgs? who told you that i turned in hybrid because bow ranger sucks?
and who told you my ras setup? you dont know so plz dont talk about it.

all i can say is this:

cant kill//attack shielded tank due to incredible block rate//engage

cant kill//attack character with pets due to interrupt from the pet

cant kill//attack character with istant dmgs or something that can interrupt my shots

cant kill classes who heal themself

the exceptions are only when i shot at people who aren t ready to fight or when they r in figh with someone else.

what remains??

infiltrators, scouts( very hard to kill) on alb

shadowblade, hunters, savages, bersekers on mid.

now for killing stealthers i need to see them before they see me, so i can try to get them from a side or from back ( very hard) and many assassins have almost same mos as mine, so i have a little time to push my bottons and dont get spotted, and when i get the perfect position, and the target moves straight i can try to shot him, many times i revela myself due to crit issue, and if i m lucky and the target is sleeping standing i can retry to charge another crit from hdden, when i can finally shot my arrow it can miss so much times that it make me crazy, and when finally i hit my target the dmg (if i select the correct arrow ) can deal between 1000 (rare cases of low res) and 550, my average is 700.

i do this WITHOUT camo up, and in my carrer here i ve never seen noone doing the same without camo, so i think that it s not the bowranger thats is op, but my hands and my playstyle that is op ( i dont think so)

if bowranger was so op all the noobs around were bowrangers, but the truth is that almost noone know how to play a sniper here and almost noone know how to play his assassin and the result is that even in more than one many stealthers got owned by me. the power of the sniper is not only his istant dmg but the skill of it s player.