Uthgard • View topic - A temporary solution for Uthgard's defense problem

A temporary solution for Uthgard's defense problem

63 posts • Page 1 of 5 • 1, 2, 3, 4, 5

Seyha Phoenix Knight Posts: 1726 Joined: Apr 25, 2009 00:00 Location: Schadenfreude City, USA	Reply with quote by Seyha » Apr 06, 2011 01:27 Based on the testing required to develop a live-like defense penetration formula, and the staff's current workload, I recommend the following temporary changes to Uthgard's defense skill system. These changes are based on what we already know about how defense penetration works on live. 1. Implement a global change that reduces defense percentages for all defensive skills by 1/4th in RvR only. A shield tank with an 80% chance to block would have this chance reduced to 60%. An assassin with a 45% chance to evade would have this chance reduced to 33.75%. This would be a simple value added to the end of every character's defense percentage calculation. 2. Reduce the defense penetration bonus of weapon types (Dual Wield, 2hand) from 1/2 to 1/3. Last edited by Seyha on Apr 06, 2011 03:33, edited 1 time in total. Luzifa: freak Luzifa: delete your freak Luzifa: seyha why you always coward? Luzifa: running valkyn freak

Eclipsed Alerion Knight Posts: 1870 Joined: Apr 27, 2007 00:00	Reply with quote by Eclipsed » Apr 06, 2011 02:45 ... if you reduce your enemy defenses with this, so that you can get a few more hits in. That would also mean your defenses would also be reduced equally, meaning youl just get hit more. The result would be the same wouldn't it. You may get one or two extra hits in, while your enemy will do the same and kill you faster. The only ones that would see a difference would be those who have almost no defense (about 0%), because they would not be reduced, but there high defense enemy's would be. But i do think the devs should make some priority on implementing a working WS that effects there enemy's defenses.

Seyha Phoenix Knight Posts: 1726 Joined: Apr 25, 2009 00:00 Location: Schadenfreude City, USA	Reply with quote by Seyha » Apr 06, 2011 02:50 Eclipsed wrote:That would also mean your defenses would also be reduced equally, meaning youl just get hit more. No, it would not result in my defense being reduced equally, unless I had the exact same defense rate as my opponent. Luzifa: freak Luzifa: delete your freak Luzifa: seyha why you always coward? Luzifa: running valkyn freak

Hoppip Myrmidon Posts: 113 Joined: Jan 29, 2011 04:58	Reply with quote by Hoppip » Apr 06, 2011 03:23 It matters a lot when you're trying to use a 2handed weapon Also known as: Kiorein, Acolyn, Skiploom, and Krinton.

Eclipsed Alerion Knight Posts: 1870 Joined: Apr 27, 2007 00:00	Reply with quote by Eclipsed » Apr 06, 2011 05:23 @Seyha - Im suprised you would include the defense penalitys into such a change, which is ment to help get past ones defenses, while we wait for the WS fix. Even though the weapon defense penalitys for what weapon your facing, actually helps get past defenses, like spear vs parry. Reducing this would increase your enemy's defense, and increase your own depending on your enemy. Seems kind of the wrong direction, for trying to improve penetration.

Seyha Phoenix Knight Posts: 1726 Joined: Apr 25, 2009 00:00 Location: Schadenfreude City, USA	Reply with quote by Seyha » Apr 06, 2011 05:51 Eclipsed wrote:@Seyha - Im suprised you would include the defense penalitys into such a change, which is ment to help get past ones defenses, while we wait for the WS fix. Even though the weapon defense penalitys for what weapon your facing, actually helps get past defenses, like spear vs parry. Reducing this would increase your enemy's defense, and increase your own depending on your enemy. Seems kind of the wrong direction, for trying to improve penetration. The defense penetration profile for classes with Dual Wield and 2hand would remain exactly the same as it is now (a total of 1/2 the enemy's defense percentage - a huge number). The goal of this system is not to further imbalance the server by giving Dual Wield and 2hand classes even better defense penetration against certain defense types. The goal of the system is to reduce Uthgard's inflated defense rates in RvR for classes that don't have special weapon-based defense penetration. This would be a lot more live-like than Uthgard's current custom system. Luzifa: freak Luzifa: delete your freak Luzifa: seyha why you always coward? Luzifa: running valkyn freak

vangonaj Alerion Knight Posts: 2497 Joined: Sep 14, 2007 00:00 Location: Galpen	Reply with quote by vangonaj » Apr 08, 2011 12:08 Im sure there are assasins in uthagrd, who are close to 50% chance evade. But shouldnt be bug. If im not wrong with >270 dex, chance evade is higher than 40%.

Blue Developer Posts: 15822 Joined: Apr 22, 2005 00:00	Reply with quote by Blue » Apr 08, 2011 14:17 vangonaj wrote:Im sure there are assasins in uthagrd, who are close to 50% chance evade. But shouldnt be bug. If im not wrong with >270 dex, chance evade is higher than 40%. Chance to evade is lowered with higher weaponskill of the attacker. Thats the problem of Uthgard. It's done when it's done. Thanks for your patience. Every bug gets fixed. Sooner or later. "It is an inescapable law of nature that the amount of satisfaction one gains from achieving something is related to how hard it is and easy things can only elicit a fleeting superficial sort of pleasure." Blue says, "you used macro tools or macro keyboard" Pala says, "i am disabled. and i have a mechanic left hand that can be programed. its hard to play woith one hand" [Appeal] Bxxxxxxxx: "why is RA first aid cann man i stealth use and not unstealth cann man ra if man use unstealth ?????????" BannedUser: "i was not using automate game action my hand was fall on keyboard during i was sleep .... i was completly fall on keyboard ..."

Jarysa Eagle Knight Posts: 664 Joined: May 05, 2009 00:00	Reply with quote by Jarysa » Apr 08, 2011 14:42 It's amusing how people think defense rates on Uthgard are too high. Why do you think caps were put into place on live? http://damaja.org/DAoC-Videos/GoA/%5BExhale%5D/ Download the 3rd vid. Starting at about 13:00 (bd pov, vs Shao) you can witness how guard worked on live. The warrior blocks every single attack by 2 heros, a warden and a VW. (dmg taken is from the eld) And they weren't debuffed or sheared so you can assume ~400 str for the heros.

Blue Developer Posts: 15822 Joined: Apr 22, 2005 00:00	Reply with quote by Blue » Apr 08, 2011 15:21 Guard is not evade btw. It's done when it's done. Thanks for your patience. Every bug gets fixed. Sooner or later. "It is an inescapable law of nature that the amount of satisfaction one gains from achieving something is related to how hard it is and easy things can only elicit a fleeting superficial sort of pleasure." Blue says, "you used macro tools or macro keyboard" Pala says, "i am disabled. and i have a mechanic left hand that can be programed. its hard to play woith one hand" [Appeal] Bxxxxxxxx: "why is RA first aid cann man i stealth use and not unstealth cann man ra if man use unstealth ?????????" BannedUser: "i was not using automate game action my hand was fall on keyboard during i was sleep .... i was completly fall on keyboard ..."

Jarysa Eagle Knight Posts: 664 Joined: May 05, 2009 00:00	Reply with quote by Jarysa » Apr 08, 2011 15:36 Blue wrote:Guard is not evade btw. So? 50% evade rate by assassins against no DWers in RvR is perfectly normal, too. The OP is talking about ALL defenses btw. Last edited by Jarysa on Apr 08, 2011 15:38, edited 1 time in total.

vangonaj Alerion Knight Posts: 2497 Joined: Sep 14, 2007 00:00 Location: Galpen	Reply with quote by vangonaj » Apr 08, 2011 15:37 Blue wrote: vangonaj wrote:Im sure there are assasins in uthagrd, who are close to 50% chance evade. But shouldnt be bug. If im not wrong with >270 dex, chance evade is higher than 40%. Chance to evade is lowered with higher weaponskill of the attacker. Thats the problem of Uthgard. You mean if my enemie has high weaponskill, my chance evade is lowered, or my chance evade is lovered if i have high weaponskill?

Blue Developer Posts: 15822 Joined: Apr 22, 2005 00:00	Reply with quote by Blue » Apr 08, 2011 16:48 vangonaj wrote: Blue wrote: vangonaj wrote:Im sure there are assasins in uthagrd, who are close to 50% chance evade. But shouldnt be bug. If im not wrong with >270 dex, chance evade is higher than 40%. Chance to evade is lowered with higher weaponskill of the attacker. Thats the problem of Uthgard. You mean if my enemie has high weaponskill, my chance evade is lowered, or my chance evade is lovered if i have high weaponskill? Lookup Seyhas post about that. He investigated that on live servers. Your chance to evade is lowered if your enemy has high weaponskill. It's done when it's done. Thanks for your patience. Every bug gets fixed. Sooner or later. "It is an inescapable law of nature that the amount of satisfaction one gains from achieving something is related to how hard it is and easy things can only elicit a fleeting superficial sort of pleasure." Blue says, "you used macro tools or macro keyboard" Pala says, "i am disabled. and i have a mechanic left hand that can be programed. its hard to play woith one hand" [Appeal] Bxxxxxxxx: "why is RA first aid cann man i stealth use and not unstealth cann man ra if man use unstealth ?????????" BannedUser: "i was not using automate game action my hand was fall on keyboard during i was sleep .... i was completly fall on keyboard ..."

Seyha Phoenix Knight Posts: 1726 Joined: Apr 25, 2009 00:00 Location: Schadenfreude City, USA	Reply with quote by Seyha » Apr 08, 2011 17:29 Jarysa wrote: Blue wrote:Guard is not evade btw. So? 50% evade rate by assassins against no DWers in RvR is perfectly normal, too. No it's not "perfectly normal" except as part of normal random chance, or against classes with a low damage stat, weapon spec, and weapon skill table. DW is not the only factor. Did I wake up in an alternate dimension where I DIDN'T do 100+ hours of testing to prove that buffing damage stat will cut a target's evade rate by a significant margin? You can test it on Pendragon for yourself. The OP is talking about ALL defenses btw. I haven't tested the effect of increased damage stat on block rates for classes that can spec shield, but I know from testing done by Motaro and other sources that it does reduce block rate for support classes with a shield equipped. I have also seen logs that suggest parry is reduced in a similar way to evade. My proposal is based on the assumption that defense penetration works the same against all defense skills, but I admit I have only tested it with evade. Luzifa: freak Luzifa: delete your freak Luzifa: seyha why you always coward? Luzifa: running valkyn freak

Kaltess Gryphon Knight Posts: 310 Joined: Dec 17, 2009 01:00 Location: France Website	Reply with quote by Kaltess » Apr 08, 2011 18:02 Evade rate is WAY too high on Uthgard and not decreased by WS ! Every stealther i meet with my arms evade most of my hits and i got 1500WS unbuffed ! I fighted against Skalnora and get evaded 100%, 7 time in a fight as i was spamming Defender's rage style (very high "to hit bonus") ! Where is the 50% evade hard cap? If you want a formula close to real effect check this post: http://uthgard.net/index.php?option=com ... 6&start=15 or we need a "memory" in Random generator that remove values from the random test until it reach 0 What i mean is if random is between 1 and 100 you get 88,than on next random,you can't get a 88 you get 46,than on next random,you can't get 88 and 46 etc...until random can't do anymore value,than it reset. Because actually,if the Random generator spam a value (for example 1)and you should do <50 to evade,you will get infinite evade rate. The random "memory" can solve the caster resist rate too imo.