[suggestion] volley
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Reason they are not reacting in time is, when the archer is coming out of stealth to ready volley, the first 3-4 seconds, before firing, the enemy isnt paning his or her camera to spot this, then they get hit and there is only 1s delays between the shots. WHat they need to do is pan there cameras if they are coming to a gate, but of course they will not allwes catch them readying volley. But if your in a fight and an archer is in the distance and you see the animation of them readying it. Better quickly intrupt or deal with the conceqences.
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What you said makes no sense. I am not talking about seeing the archer BEFORE you get volleyed, I am saying do you REALLY believe that after someone gets hit with dmg, and they immediately hit sprint, that it would take them 4 seconds to do that?
That is nonsensical, even the biggest noob on the planet isn't going to take 4 seconds to hit a key their finger is hovering over. That's almost the same delay as purge 1, you really think someone is going to wait that long before hitting anything? That makes no sense. Volley is bugging out and landing multiple arrows on the first hit. Whether that bug is from lag, or from the mechanics of volley itself doesn't change the end result. Interrupting someone who hits you initially with 1300+ dmg from more than 1500 range is a stupid suggestion! first off, even if you did interrupt them, you are snared because your life is so low that they need only kite (increasing their distance between you and the archer since you are snared from having low health) back momentarily and hit you with 1 more arrows to finish the job. I pan basically all the time, I was hit near apk and at the time I was hit my camera was panned toward the pk while I was running away from it, and as soon as I took dmg, I hit sprint, and panned my camera around seeing the archer just before the 1 second delay between the 1st 4 arrows and the 5th arrow which killed me doing the final 300+ of the 1600 dmg I took within 1 second. Volley is horribly broken right now. There is no way to counter somsone hitting you for 1600+ dmg within a second when you have 1500 HPs. The fact that you think somehow seeing the archer as they land their 1300 dmg initial hit is going to make some difference is laughable. The fact that you think you can somehow close distance (since volley works at >1500 range) to even land that interrupt before you are close enough to death that it won't matter is laughable. The current implementation of volley leaves no counter when it lands 1300+ dmg on the first hit. Not unless you are a fully buffed shield tank with IP ready will you be able to do anything. That is NO WHERE NEAR LIVE LIKE. That's the point right? This is supposed to be live like. The information used to create volley was wrong, the page on which it was published said it was wrong for NF. Now even that wrong implementation is not working as described. How you can defend it is beyond me. I'm sure the fact that the only hibs in the top 10 LWRPS are lurikeen rangers is a coincidence too. |
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4 sec ready time, 1 sec for second shot. ____________________________________________________
3.5 sec ready fire and hit, 1sec block, 1sec Hit, 1sec out of range __________________________________________________
3.5 sec ready fire and hit, 1sec Hit, 1sec evaded, 1sec hit I could go on, Ive got alot of logs of my use of volley and not one will say multi hits in the same second. Yet again, cries from people with no proof of there claims. Yes we know volley isnt exactly like live, but we dont have enough proof of live and to keep it useful. Some adjustments will prob come, depending on what blue thinks needs to be done, but not because volley is impossible to over come, but because these cries are based on nothing but full spec archers kill them, in perfect situations for the archer or even Multi archers killing them. Most of you just need to admit you got caught with your pants down, got raped as many classes can pull and a nerf is what you need so it doesnt happen again lol. Ether way, youl still get killed with your pants down, just like that thread about an assasin getting critshotted from stealth, yet another attempt to cry because they died with there pants down. Go great an archer, play solo for a few months to a year, and be a better player because of it. Most that havent played one before will noticed the diffrence and challeges, hopefuly youl not give up too soon . At lvl 50 of course, BGs are easy mode. |
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lemme get this straight, because you have a chat log where volley worked in the non live like manner in which on uthgard it is supposed to, that means that everyone who has been hit by multiple arrows in one instant got, "caught with their pants down", whatever that means, and that somehow makes you believe that it would in fact take me 4 seconds to simply hit 1 key? Not to mention you are taking the log from the archer, you need to take the log from the person being hit. I don't think anyone is saying that volley always lands multiple arrows. We have multiple people who have been on occasion hit in that manner. That doesn't mean that volley will always bug out.
Maybe the bug only effects higher levels of volley (could have to do with that many arrows inc to a GT + server lag or something). Not enough information is present to decide how exactly this bug works, but enough evidence is present to know that something is bugging, causing multiple arrows to hit at once. I can post the SS of 4 arrows one after another and then immediately a sprint notification but its obviously you are not amenable to reason. I am going to run with chat logging in the future, but tbh the idea of running around solo in off hours to just be basically 1 shot by a ranger is not appealing. This was my first instance running into the bugged version of volley on a bow specced ranger and it doesn't make me want to run around after primetime solo at all. Who wants to face instant death from nearsight range? The basis for why volley even has the 1 second delay has already been confirmed as not trustworthy as live like, as the publication originally used to come up with this admits at the top of the page, "this information us no longer useful because volley was changed with NF"...the only information we have from mythic on this is that volley causes "successive arrows" to be fired at a GT. Successive does not imply any sort of specific time below a normal shot. What documentation do you have from mythic which demonstrates volley should have a fire rate faster than a normal shot? I'm not saying that volley didn't have an increased fire rate, but for an increased fire rate to be implemented some sort of real documentation is needed. Otherwise, the default response should be normal shot speed, as nothing has been presented that volley functioned any way other than that. So tell me eclipse, if (pretend for a minute you believe i can hit sprint within 1 second of taking dmg, just play along, cause that's what happened) you take 1300 dmg all at once from an archer at greater than 1500 range, what is the counter? You have 1 second before the 5th arrow kills you...what do you suggest? Don't forget, that taking 1300 dmg leaves you snared, so closing distance to interrupt is not an option. |
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You and many others have not provent, these shots are instent. You look at a chat log that shows each hit close by, but being 1sec delay its going to look like that in a chat log of course. What you need is time stamps, which ive provided and you and others have not. And if its currect on the archers side, then its server side / player side lag causing the delay that you have been hit. Even when it lags the game is still going, there is no real pause. But yet i still dont believe that is the case because ive been hit with volley, and i find time to counter it, unless ive got someone else on me, where i have little chance anyway. So since you have no proof of this so called instant 4 hits at the start, we will have to asume there is no such bug that hasnt been proven and look at your situation.
Your running by amg or where ever, you head in a redicted direction, like heading to and threw the gates, there is a invisable archer who sees you coming and since his GT is alrdy positioned right at the exit of the gate, he stands in an area , least likely to be looked at and readys volley (3.5 sec). Now you are getting near the gate and about to enter the gate. The archers volley is ready to start first shot and begins as you enter the 350 radius GT and take your first hit, 1s, second hit, 1s, third hit and starting to react to the attack and hitting sprint, 1s, possibly need to use macro to move GT forward a little to keep you in the radius , hit for a fourth time ( 4 hits in 3 seconds ) now your down to one hit and dead and since your too low, sprint has little effect because of your health, and your still in the GT/ moved forward with macro = Dead. Most likely in this situation, the archer is up on amg , watching over for albs or who ever to come threw the gate and into there trap. Since they are not visable to you, they can start to ready volley out of sight, making there first hit , instant and easly get a second and normaly a third before leaving GT and or reacting to what has happened. When someone is suprised, there reaction time is normaly a little slower, unless they are expecting it to happen. And a simple macro can push the GT forward a little more. The max range for volley is 2300 units, but doesnt mean its used allwes at that far. And since OF, amg is almost a possitive someone will pass through, making it the perfect place to setup an easy trap. My best advice to avoid it or at least better chance not to die so easy is to one, stop being so predictable. When going to a gate, try not doing the streight line strat. Sometimes heading to the sides of the gate entrance and going in and out on the sides may keep you from entering there GT, sometimes, and there easiest way to move the GT forward is by a macro, but that can only move it forward and back from there location, so if you move to the side then forward, the macro may not work as good, also keeping in mind, if they are up top and your on the bottom. Going below them, with an object in the way up top, will force the GT up top and not below, making them have to think of where to put it and cant use a macro, giving you time to get to them/ intrupt. And in any case, there is allwes that possiblity they are still within 1500 units, distance in this game can be an illusion to you, espicaly in the heat of battle. You may only need to turn and walk forward a little to be in range, so sometimes its better to /face dd charge if you can. If you got a shield, allwes /face. There is many other things i could suggest, but i shouldnt have to tell my amature enemys how to beat my class because they cant think for them self. And just remember, some situations where a full spec archers has the advantage, you may not win, period. Just like in some situations a caster or light tanks or anyone. See what your chances are facing like a reaver, light tank, or any high dps classes with no purge or ip or anything to save your butt, and see how long you last. And if anyone wants to suggest this theory about volley being instent dmg, provide un-modified timestamps. If you want me to listen and even test your theory, youd got to prove yourself, ive seen alot of crying and its hard to believe most of those crys, espicaly when its mission is to take away anything from an archer. And im not saying volley is currect to live, and i know we do not have enough clear proof of how it should work effectivly to be live like. My points are , most of the reasons people find the current one OP, is because of lack of exerience facing it and understanding it, which allwes developes into rant postings, that aim to nerf what they dont understand and dont like. But dont be insulted, there has been times i found something all out OP and questioned it and thought something isnt right. But what i do is test test and research if its currect and whats happening. And when i test and research proof on how something should work, i look for clear understandings of it, not someone saying. It sucks, its never used. That isnt clear, because alot of players can mis-understand a skill and label it as crap and useless and then post a turtorial with it on there saying its crap. Ive heard many say skills like Desperate bowman is crap, while others say its not used to its full advantage most of the time, and more skilled archers know better ways of use. But you really think they want to give there secretes out. Heck on live, especialy for an archer, if a skill is thought as useless and not used normaly by the amatures, then the devs will ether make it better or not nerf it to hell. So all those statements about volley is allwes the players opinons, and unless its directly from mythic or player actualy tested it with hit tests and all that stuff, its hard to just say, use what they said and make volley have no use. That is stupid, when we may just need a few adjust ments to make it more " Enemy Noob " friendly. And id suggest when and if you actualy do find evidence on how it should work. Make sure you know the patch version at the time, since multi sources on how it should work isnt going to be currect because volley, like other skills has gone threw many changes and sometimes undocumented. Like one time i heard you could ready it from stealth and not be unstealthed, then they changed that, another time it had no max range and could be fired way way to far, that got fixed, another time it had a min range, then that got removed, it also hit and broke BTs as a RA and then changed to bow spec that doesnt break BT and so much more. So think twice when you tell the staff to just make it live like, that isnt a clear answer and could give them alot of time remaking volley, screwing up, bugs, fix, bugs, fix and could just turn into being more OP or too weak to care to use. Then they would have wasted so much time on a working skill that amatures couldnt handle. IF you dont have proof to your instant dmg claim ( timestamps ) , for god sake, dont contenue to waste my time and give incurrect information to the staff about an imaginary bug. |
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Should I assume you are unable to answer the questions I asked you then, and we can conclude you know of no information from mythic which states volley has an increased fire rate, you don't have a clue how to counter it in the instance I proposed, and you do in fact believe it takes someone 4 seconds to hit a key after taking dmg?
I said there is evidence that volley is bugging out and landing multiple arrows at once. The evidence is multiple accounts from independent sources who have screen shots which do not contradict their accounting of events. That isn't 100% proof, and there isn't enough data to identify what causes this bug. But its evident to anyone that's been hit by it that its there and needs to be addressed. Of course that is a separate issue which is also related to volley being non live like, as the current implementation even when working correctly isn't live like. I have a ranger here, and I have an idea for how I can reproduce that instant arrow bug, which I will be testing at some point. The problem being I am not specced bow, so until I can farm enough for a respec stone Ill be unable to do anything. Lastly, you haven't provided me with any information about volley or how most rangers use it, that I didn't already know. The only time I've been hit with the bug was near apk, I was panning, I died in roughly a 1 second time period from taking dmg, and there was nothing I couldn't done to prevent it (i dont have IP). No amount of knowledge regarding the inner workings of volley and how rangers use it in emain is going to change that fact. |
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The ideea that there is 1 second delay between the shots was thought to be like that..all the archers in liveservers were fuly bufed by BB s, beeing either scouts,rangers,hunters, with such high TOA buffs and 10% archery speed voley shot might get to 1s timer between intervals, yet not all the time how it is here on uthgard as a fix time interval between those succesive shots.
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Well finding other proof about the 1 sec delay on additional shots isnt easy, or finding any info on old volley isnt easy at all. But based on what i remember back then, and what zip has told me and posted about volley, all says 1 sec delay. So what do you have to support your reasons to question it ?
And everyone that posted about getting hit really fast, has not said it was instent, just quick or most shots hit. So far i think your the only one claiming they said that. Most of there screenshots show what can and prob is just a 1 sec delay each. There is no evidence to say other whise. Just shoot a test dummy and screenshot the hits, it will look no diffrent, but in the log it will say , it cost 3.5/4 delay to ready and fire of first shot, 1sec for each after. Maybe even longer depending on lag. If you actualy do have a ranger, respec and test then. Youl find it was a wast of a respec. And what where you doing at / by apk, standing still waiting for someone to come out or something. Making your self an easy target. Or let me guess, you where running at warp 9 or some crap to make your story more difficult to explain lol. Untill you show proof, real proof to support those claims, i have no reason to believe you. And it really doesnt matter, im sure the staff has good enough judgent on peoples claims. And your situation, was based on a bug that doesnt exist, so its hard to guess what to do. Best i could say is /face, use dd , since you really dont know how far you are from him, and move tword him till you can cast it. Its easier to go at him then run away at that point. And in any situation where you got suprised and owned, when you come back, dont make that same mistake to be suprised. But then again, like most they run back to the same spot ready to attack them when it happens again, but I instead take a walk tword the direction they will come again most likly to suprise them early, when they are not expecting it there. Allwes works , for one simple reason, many people are very predictable. |
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Ecplised - volley isn't working as intended, i don't see how you cannot understand this...
Looking at your chat logs : You do nowhere near the damage that those luri rangers are doing - maybe this is why you dont see it as a problem? Some rangers are hitting for around 330-350 a shot.. (that's in 1second according to you), and thats successively from a 2200yr range... The point about the 3.5sec draw time being vulnerable unstealthed, (again you are probably shooting slower than the other rangers are you are either melee/hybrid and not lurikeen.. not sure how much quickness you have) What good is being vulnerable unstealthed if you cannot see the target - panning camera is a nice excuse, but a lurikeen volleying can easily hide behind a tree and is damn hard to see, especially as you're taking 300+dmg plus/sec so don't have alot of time, most classes will be snared due to low health in 2-3seconds and so getting in range to rupt the archer is near impossible. The way volley is implemented is completely wrong, it never worked like this on live servers and should be changed.. I realise you don't want to loose an ability which is actually good as archers who on uthgard have many issues, but that's not the point - it is a bug and should/needs to be fixed. |
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Archery speed is only effected by qui, and a luri or even a celt hits or almost hits 250 qui. Only diffrence on here is no 10% speed bonus from ToA, so i really dont think that would be true. As 1s with 10% is only 1.11 sec or so without it, so that really doesnt change much of anything, if your statement was true. |
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Ive alrdy stated its not exactly like live and the problems with implementing what would be live. And the reason im not hitting those high damages is because im only 40+15 bow, not 50 or 45 bow as many of those volley archers are. You know whats the diffrence, there melee is almost nothing and have to run from combat. That is why there shots are devistating with volley in perfect conditions. And most archers are not going to fire at 2200 units, yes the farther they are the longer you can fire, but if they dont stop and ran at you, they will be out of range in no time, even if you fire at your max range and the arrow is in the air , if they are out of range on hit, it will count as out of range. And yes addtional shots are 1 sec, but not the prep time to start volley, that is normal done in advance when they see you coming and they are in a safe place to do so. In perfect conditions. And i have 236 Qui, and that is about 4% i think slower on haste. So i shot at 3.5, capped is 3.4 , since ive had a luri bow spec archer before. And yes an archer can hide, while he prepares volley, and an enemy can also take the road or somewhere away from trees if they need to, or stay away from hill sides or where ever they normaly get volleyed. Also run with a health buffer, base con, str/con and what ever else in case you get attacked. If anything run with someone, they will not be able to volley you to death with two there, unless there is more then one archer. And as i said, it may not be exactly live like, and if you think you know whats wrong. Be detailed and say whats wrong with clear proof of course. Give miss rate %s, delay times and so on, and with proof. I bet none of you will do that, you want the staff to guess because something is challeging to you. |
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Others have confirmed what I said about multiple arrows I was not the first to notice this bug eclipsed. I was running around APK because it was well after prime time with maybe 200 people connected and emain was dead (except for a couple hib stealthers).
I was actually looking at the screenshot and it is evident that aomethig went wrong because the dmg from the last arrow which was what killed me (I was ther hehe) actually hit after I had died in the chat log. Probably a lag issue but never the less, 1600+ dmg in 1 sec is insane. My Internet is down ATM, I'm actually posting from my phone but when it's back up I'll post the screeny so you can see for yourself eclipsed, somehing did in fact go wrong and while there are not timestamps you'll be able to see something is not right. I will test volley on my ranger and if my suspicions are correct about what causes the multi arrow bug it'll be easily replicated. |
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Blue will do it himself. Probably to make sure that biased opinions wont influence the outcome of the fix. Seeing all this, I would say it's a good idea. Healowner - Alb/Merlin - The Guardians |
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well what ever blue implements will be his choice of course. Influenced by these crys of course. Volley has been implemented for awhile, and ive used it in agramon and since its release, but no one cryed about it back then, only now because more archers are using it because of the one major hot spot at amg, makes a perfect spot to set it up. But if he decides to disable volley by implementing something based on not 100% clear ideas on how it should work, it will most likely be just disabled and useless. But at least then it gives him a reason to adjust archer, and fix many many of the bugs with it to compensate for this archery change. Its funny the only reason they use full archery now is because of volley, without it most use full melee no archery, that says alot about how bad archery is, that its almost pointless to use without such a strong tool. So i hope blue notices that and considers the concequences of what it will do too archery and thinks up ways to give people to contenue to use full archery.
Its funny to point out something isnt live like and to go by that reasoning, when we got so many custom thing here, like the poison situation, the no buff bots also have an impact on some classes, like a ranger that has there own buffbot, wouldnt need to spec in PF, giving them the chance to spec in more bow and melee, then blowing points into a buffline because they need it. That in it self isnt live like, and so many ToA features missing making the patch version wrong too , and how each class performs without there ML skills. Now i do agree the reasons for not having buffbots, toa and so on, but some classes do suffer more then others with those custom changes. |
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Here's a suggestion about volley: remove it completely until someone finds solid proof about how it worked on live because it sure as hell didn't work the way it does on uthgard.
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