And ranger has better armor than infi. You said infi can do pa. Ill say you if you can do pa vs mos archer this mean that this archer is stupid or noob or he stay afk. If you have mos 4 or 5 no one infi, sb will see you preparing critshot. With critshot you can do 700 damage. 1200-700=500 two shots more and infi died. Ranger can spec PD too. With pd 5 if i hit you, you will resist half of damage.

Yes you are right little rangers need help.

I love these un-reasonable posts. Some of you are not even making sense, your making up things to make it sound like i want un-reasonable changes. I show facts, i explain myself, but i dont see anyone doing that, just they will be super weak, and rangers will be in god mode. This has nothing to do with rangers, this is about all self buffing classes, which a ranger is one of them.

And a hunter does have a dmg add, its called his pet, who also can be used to rupt or trick people. But yes his pet is weak, because of missing abilities for the pet, but that is your job to report and get that fixed.

And yes a ranger can be strong at a high rank and full melee spec, but just because you die to one, doesnt mean they are OP or even balanced. Depends on there rank vs your rank, situation, and so on, and he can be running with extra buffs too. Heck look at the current top RPLW.

From highest to lower

Shadowblade - 253K
Scout - 220K
Merc - 217K
Blademaster
Mentalist
Runemaster
Merc
Bard
Runemaster
Healer
Cabalist
Eld
Minstrel
Paladin
Sorc
Paladin
Sorc
Eld
Hunter - 132K
Reaver
Ranger - 127K

As you can see, currently the ranger isnt out there just taking names like it was nothing. Just look at how many classes above the ranger and hunter, who are not self buffed classes, with much higher RPLW, with the top being a SB. Now i know these are not all solos and the map change has affected the RPLW, but its been like this for some time, so dont get off saying the ranger is owning all and is OP. This is about self buffed classes, having there buffs less effective because the buffs dont make them unique, since anyone can gain them, with a little work.

vangonaj wrote:And ranger has better armor than infi. You said infi can do pa. Ill say you if you can do pa vs mos archer this mean that this archer is stupid or noob or he stay afk. If you have mos 4 or 5 no one infi, sb will see you preparing critshot. With critshot you can do 700 damage. 1200-700=500 two shots more and infi died. Ranger can spec PD too. With pd 5 if i hit you, you will resist half of damage.

Yes you are right little rangers need help.

Not every single archer will spring for MoS 4 or 5 just to critshot an assasin. Plus when old ra's come, what will your argument be then, since MoS will not add detection range and will not be on the ranger and assasins can see a un camo ranger at a greater distance for easy pa. Like i said, this is a old ra older patch change that should be done.

LWRP means nothing

Example! The scout at nr2 is 4l2 - therefore most of those 220k rp's probably came in thid

LWRP has nothing to do with this thread. There are weeks when RM are top, rangers are top, infis are top, mercs are top, you cant generalize because last week no ranger was enough active to do some rps. I could say same thing, look at my sb what low LWRP i have.

Post less, play more.

And stop wasting time trying to do change things that dont even are livelike (like they are not changed already - on live charges have still the full values).

vangonaj wrote:If you have mos 4 or 5 no one infi, sb will see you preparing critshot. With critshot you can do 700 damage. 1200-700=500 two shots more and infi died.

If you can critshot from stealth, that means infi,sb is dumb.
If you can shoot 2 more arrows, that means infi, sb is either afk or drunk.

My point about the RPLW, was that there isnt tons of rangers filling up those charts. Yes it varies, but its not over run by OP rangers as some claim they are. Out of 250 players last weak, only 10 actualy where rangers , thats 4%. There maybe many rangers lvling up, since rangers are fun in BGs, ... why well how many are running with buffs in BGs ? Then you hit 50 and are entered in the world of buffed enemys, that is when most rangers give up or barly play. And if they do, they are high ranks and or good at there class to deal with it.

I think you can't compare Ranger with Inf or Merc - it's just another kind of class.

You can compare: Scout/Ranger/Hunter.

Archers have the ability to stealth so they can choose their target (Merc can't he's visible).

Compared to Assassins Archers can attack from long range, so their Melee skill is of course lower than Assassins WS.

To say a ranger has stealth, so he can choose his targets, is saying that a ranger should be limited on what classes he or she is allowed to kill, which isnt fair and isnt what mythic intended. To say that, then your saying an assasin cant kill a merc too, which i know isnt true because ive seen myn assasins take out visables quiet easy sometimes. Stealth can be used to pick targets, but its main reason is to have the sneak attack and start at range, which doesnt last long. And starting at range vs a assasin isnt normaly possible, unless you got high mos and camo or you catch one out of stealth.

Every class should be able to take on each other some what equal. Healers and speed classes like the bard i would have to say, is an exception since they can grp easy, but if you remove buffs from non buffing classes, maybe they would be able to have some kinda chance with soloing, since they get self buffs, or some of them. Who dont get self buffs can alrdy solo with this buffed up uthgard.

For the rest of you, kept it on topic and not a player bashing, which im sure is agenst the rules. If you got a point, make it and explain yourself, or else im just going to explain why your wrong. And yes people spent time in alchemy to get buff pots, which you only need like 600+ to get them all, or the most used ones. Hey how about go higher and get procs and reactives, that is why others go into alchemy too.

Eclipsed wrote:To say a ranger has stealth, so he can choose his targets, is saying that a ranger should be limited on what classes he or she is allowed to kill, which isnt fair and isnt what mythic intended. To say that, then your saying an assasin cant kill a merc too, which i know isnt true because ive seen myn assasins take out visables quiet easy sometimes. Stealth can be used to pick targets, but its main reason is to have the sneak attack and start at range, which doesnt last long. And starting at range vs a assasin isnt normaly possible, unless you got high mos and camo or you catch one out of stealth.

Every class should be able to take on each other some what equal. Healers and speed classes like the bard i would have to say, is an exception since they can grp easy, but if you remove buffs from non buffing classes, maybe they would be able to have some kinda chance with soloing, since they get self buffs, or some of them. Who dont get self buffs can alrdy solo with this buffed up uthgard.

For the rest of you, kept it on topic and not a player bashing, which im sure is agenst the rules. If you got a point, make it and explain yourself, or else im just going to explain why your wrong. And yes people spent time in alchemy to get buff pots, which you only need like 600+ to get them all, or the most used ones. Hey how about go higher and get procs and reactives, that is why others go into alchemy too.

What do you expect ?

A ranger with stealth, bow, hitting like a merc and killing any kind of class by just pressing one button?
Success is the optimal use of what you have. Use your skill I wouldn't say Ranger needs any kind of love, when you say others have buffs, you can use them too. They "strong" ones are still nerfed/limited on Uthgard.

Eclipsed wrote:Every class should be able to take on each other some what equal. Healers and speed classes like the bard i would have to say, is an exception since they can grp easy,

For this all should have same abilities, weapons, armors... All should be zerkers, friars or wardens...

And about healers, bards, clerics. Why bard and cleric has dd and healer nothing? Why druid has pet? Why mids have celerity? Imbalance? Maybe, but the game have this "imbalances", and if you don´t like them you should play other game.

Razzer wrote:

Eclipsed wrote:To say a ranger has stealth, so he can choose his targets, is saying that a ranger should be limited on what classes he or she is allowed to kill, which isnt fair and isnt what mythic intended. To say that, then your saying an assasin cant kill a merc too, which i know isnt true because ive seen myn assasins take out visables quiet easy sometimes. Stealth can be used to pick targets, but its main reason is to have the sneak attack and start at range, which doesnt last long. And starting at range vs a assasin isnt normaly possible, unless you got high mos and camo or you catch one out of stealth.

Every class should be able to take on each other some what equal. Healers and speed classes like the bard i would have to say, is an exception since they can grp easy, but if you remove buffs from non buffing classes, maybe they would be able to have some kinda chance with soloing, since they get self buffs, or some of them. Who dont get self buffs can alrdy solo with this buffed up uthgard.

For the rest of you, kept it on topic and not a player bashing, which im sure is agenst the rules. If you got a point, make it and explain yourself, or else im just going to explain why your wrong. And yes people spent time in alchemy to get buff pots, which you only need like 600+ to get them all, or the most used ones. Hey how about go higher and get procs and reactives, that is why others go into alchemy too.

What do you expect ?

A ranger with stealth, bow, hitting like a merc and killing any kind of class by just pressing one button?
Success is the optimal use of what you have. Use your skill I wouldn't say Ranger needs any kind of love, when you say others have buffs, you can use them too. They "strong" ones are still nerfed/limited on Uthgard.

So if they remove buffs from charges and pots, that will magicly make the bow do more dmg, one shot someone or something ? NO it wouldnt, what it would do, is make those non buff classes equal or close to equal with classes that get self buffs and are on a lower dmg table/hp. And non self buffed class vs a non self buffed class will be the same.

If you disagree with me, then say.

" Self buffed classes do not require there buffline to be as affective as non self buffing classes, and that all buffs affect each class the same "

If you cant agree to that, then explain why you need your extra buffs so bad, and why you cant compete fairly without them vs someone with self buffs.

Eclipsed wrote:" Self buffed classes do not require there buffline to be as affective as non self buffing classes, and that all buffs affect each class the same "

If you cant agree to that, then explain why you need your extra buffs so bad, and why you cant compete fairly without them vs someone with self buffs.

First: selfbuffs are better than pots and charges.
Second: i use pots and charges for kill other players who use pots and charges too.

I personaly dont want charges removed and i went Alchemist and use Potions myself, but Eclipsed still has a point there, even if he is pressing things a bit too aggressive.

Selfbuff classes were designed to compete with other classes who have no selfbuffs. Then, later, charges and Potions came in and everyone could have buffs. So selfbuffing classes did not get weaker, but their opponents got stronger with that. Now selfbuffing classes with their selfbuffs fight against Classes who have no selfbuffs, but who are now buffed anyway.

I think the solution we have now, with weaker charges/Potions than before, is a good compromise between leaving them at full strength and removing them.

vangonaj wrote:

Eclipsed wrote:" Self buffed classes do not require there buffline to be as affective as non self buffing classes, and that all buffs affect each class the same "

If you cant agree to that, then explain why you need your extra buffs so bad, and why you cant compete fairly without them vs someone with self buffs.

First: selfbuffs are better than pots and charges.
Second: i use pots and charges for kill other players who use pots and charges too.

First: yes they are better, but some have to spec for them, and if they get self buffs, guess what is in common with that, lower damage table and less hp per con, there is a reason why they are, its because they can buff, to bad everyone can get some buffs. Maybe not as much, but what they can get , will lower the effectivenss the self buffs have for that class. example

bard gets
62 str extra compared to a non buff class \ more ws
55 con extra compared to a non buff class \ hp
60 dex extra compared to a non buff class \ more defense

non buff class gets/ most of them
High dmg table
more hp per con
more access to ablities and or defenses, some.

Give them all buffs and the bard can have
118 str / compared to 76 spec/base charge/pot (42 less)
111 con / compared to 76 spec/base charge/pot (35 less)
123 dex / compared to 83 spec/base charge/pot (40 less)

So by giving non buff classes charges and pots to buff them self, a bard is
67.7% Base Str Self Buff effective, compared to a non self buffing class
63.6% Base Con self buff effective, compared to a non self buffing class
66.6% Base Dex self buff effective, compared to a non self buffing class

By giving everyone access to buffs, even a bard using d/q s/c and the pots, will still be about 33% nerfed on there buff lines. The reason we get self buffs, is because we are on lower dmg tables and most get less hp per con, then some others. Or less defenses, but what ever it is, we get buffs at the sacurfie of something.