Uthgard • View topic - Blockrate woes.

Blockrate woes.

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Toblerone Banned Posts: 1071 Joined: Jan 27, 2010 01:00 Location: Croatia	Reply with quote by Toblerone » Mar 16, 2010 00:28 Nayru wrote:The screenshot shows 7 blocks in a row. So what? I'm quite sure you would even find 10 blocks in a row. This doesn't mean anything. It means something is wrong with either the block formula or the way uthgard calculates pecentages. A supporter with ~10% chance to block shouldn't be able to block 2 hits in a row, let alone 7. But yeah, somehow I knew you'd ignore the fact that something is wrong and blame it on "luck" It's always bad luck. I never had such bad luck on live in 8 years, but somehow I have lots of it on uthgard [23:53] <@ref^> i once hugged a girl you know [20:03] <@ref^^> I AM NOT STUPID [20:03] <@ref^^> but i am retardd

Blue Developer Posts: 15829 Joined: Apr 22, 2005 00:00	Reply with quote by Blue » Mar 16, 2010 00:33 Should be clear that with no spec in shield the blockrate should be lower than on Uthgard. Theres a missing test for correct blockrate. But currently theres not much time for it. Maybe some player wants to help here. Need a chatlog of 1000-2000 attacks against a blocking target with 280+ DEX and Shield spec 1. Shield at 100% Quali/Cond. Last edited by Blue on Mar 16, 2010 00:37, edited 1 time in total. It's done when it's done. Thanks for your patience. Every bug gets fixed. Sooner or later. "It is an inescapable law of nature that the amount of satisfaction one gains from achieving something is related to how hard it is and easy things can only elicit a fleeting superficial sort of pleasure." Blue says, "you used macro tools or macro keyboard" Pala says, "i am disabled. and i have a mechanic left hand that can be programed. its hard to play woith one hand" [Appeal] Bxxxxxxxx: "why is RA first aid cann man i stealth use and not unstealth cann man ra if man use unstealth ?????????" BannedUser: "i was not using automate game action my hand was fall on keyboard during i was sleep .... i was completly fall on keyboard ..."

Hedra Eagle Knight Posts: 1002 Joined: Mar 14, 2007 01:00	Reply with quote by Hedra » Mar 16, 2010 00:36 Nayru wrote:The screenshot shows 7 blocks in a row. So what? I'm quite sure you would even find 10 blocks in a row. This doesn't mean anything. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stochastic ... cal_theory I would agree if it was exceptional but it's not. Everytime I play cleric I see a tank trying to slam me a few times and giving up after 4 blocks. Or a 2hand skald sticking me and getting half his hits block. Seriously blockrate is way too high for classes who can't spec shield.

Force Phoenix Knight Posts: 1569 Joined: Oct 22, 2009 00:00	Reply with quote by Force » Mar 16, 2010 01:09 Toblerone wrote: Nayru wrote:The screenshot shows 7 blocks in a row. So what? I'm quite sure you would even find 10 blocks in a row. This doesn't mean anything. It means something is wrong with either the block formula or the way uthgard calculates pecentages. A supporter with ~10% chance to block shouldn't be able to block 2 hits in a row, let alone 7. ya with a 10% chance to block any given hit, the odds of blocking 7 in a row should be about 1 in 10 million. While in "theory" this is possible, you shouldn't see it happening any more often than you find yourself winning the lotto when you play. 2 blocks in a row is about as unlikely as rolling a /random 100 and getting 100, so you shouldn't see it often at all either. But of course supporters have way higher than 10% chance here.

Nayru Developer Posts: 8834 Joined: Jan 08, 2007 01:00	Reply with quote by Nayru » Mar 16, 2010 01:18 Hedra wrote: Nayru wrote:The screenshot shows 7 blocks in a row. So what? I'm quite sure you would even find 10 blocks in a row. This doesn't mean anything. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stochastic ... cal_theory I would agree if it was exceptional but it's not. Everytime I play cleric I see a tank trying to slam me a few times and giving up after 4 blocks. Or a 2hand skald sticking me and getting half his hits block. Seriously blockrate is way too high for classes who can't spec shield. Do me a favour and test it yourself on Pendragon. It might be a little bit too much, but all the tests I have done with Raghor have shown unbelievable high blockrates on full buffed clerics (the opponent was an armsman). Dexterity has an immense influence on block chances. Last edited by Nayru on Mar 16, 2010 01:18, edited 1 time in total.

mfassben Eagle Knight Posts: 736 Joined: Jul 23, 2006 00:00	Reply with quote by mfassben » Mar 16, 2010 01:18 Actually Nayru, it does mean a lot, because on live a Supporter will NEVER block more then 1 hit from a melee specced toon. From all the time i played a supporter (or vs. them) i can´t recall anything like that happening. <img src="http://sigtool.covod.org/getImage.php?user=Islana&key=DHKZgbkxJYFMlL">

Glacius	Reply with quote by Glacius » Mar 16, 2010 01:20 Blue wrote:Should be clear that with no spec in shield the blockrate should be lower than on Uthgard. Theres a missing test for correct blockrate. But currently theres not much time for it. Maybe some player wants to help here. Need a chatlog of 1000-2000 attacks against a blocking target with 280+ DEX and Shield spec 1. Shield at 100% Quali/Cond. I could help but , why u need a class that can spec shield with 1 shield skill? such a class automatically has 25% base chances to block no? like any pala war arms etc.. we need to test it on a class that canot spec shield.. like clerics,shamans etc am i right or wrong?

Dialia Myrmidon Posts: 208 Joined: Dec 21, 2008 01:00	Reply with quote by Dialia » Mar 16, 2010 01:27 Glacius wrote:And friar ?? muarf ! the only thing which makes friar beter are bufs and the fact that he can take augm dext4 and mopain4 mopary 4 beeing at rr7 a kiling machine, while me at rr7 i have det5 charge2 and mopain 4 if i m lucky enough, those r his advantages , both fully bufed , omfg i kill 3 friars with 1 bar of hp. Glacius wrote:Actually Dialia..i have augm str4 also and i run with str/con pot aye.. why got you more points than other players ? you are 7l7 and have det 5 charge 2 and mopain 4 ? ... you need 7l9 for these points ... and additional aug str 4 ? o.O ? so you are 9l9 and no one see it ? and btw, how you will test it ? ... on pendragon there are only df-shields with 30 % bonus ... but a level 50/51 shield have 35%

Blue Developer Posts: 15829 Joined: Apr 22, 2005 00:00	Reply with quote by Blue » Mar 16, 2010 03:13 Glacius wrote:could help but , why u need a class that can spec shield with 1 shield skill? such a class automatically has 25% base chances to block no? like any pala war arms etc.. we need to test it on a class that canot spec shield.. like clerics,shamans etc am i right or wrong? Theres no such thing like 25% base block rate. If you have time, do some tests, send me the log and I analyze it. Shield 1 would be the same as no shield spec at all. Thats my opinion. It's done when it's done. Thanks for your patience. Every bug gets fixed. Sooner or later. "It is an inescapable law of nature that the amount of satisfaction one gains from achieving something is related to how hard it is and easy things can only elicit a fleeting superficial sort of pleasure." Blue says, "you used macro tools or macro keyboard" Pala says, "i am disabled. and i have a mechanic left hand that can be programed. its hard to play woith one hand" [Appeal] Bxxxxxxxx: "why is RA first aid cann man i stealth use and not unstealth cann man ra if man use unstealth ?????????" BannedUser: "i was not using automate game action my hand was fall on keyboard during i was sleep .... i was completly fall on keyboard ..."

EnsisFerrum Gryphon Knight Posts: 346 Joined: Mar 15, 2010 01:00	Reply with quote by EnsisFerrum » Mar 16, 2010 11:23 Q. I have been wondering, and have gotten several different answers from people. The spec you have in block/parry, including the '+ to skill', how many '% chance' you have to block/parry. How much does dexterity and/or quickness affect the evade/parry/block? By numbers? A. Our Warrior Team Lead Apriori spent quite a bit of time testing this one for you: Well, this is a particularly thorny question to answer because you said the dreaded word �numbers!� If this were as simple as �X amount of Dexterity equals Y amount of block/parry/evade,� then there would be reliable information out there. That�s my way of saying that I�m not going to directly give you numbers! The reality of the situation is that your defense rates have many influencing factors, including (but not limited to): Class, spec, stats, shield condition and who/what you are fighting. There are some numbers that we know for sure: Evade and Parry are capped at 50%, Blocking is capped at 75%, Dex and Quick affect evade, and their average has a hard cap of 250; Dex affects Shield and Parry and it has no cap; Spec�ing in Shield/Parry increases your chance to block or parry by .5% per spec level; Realm abilities like Mastery of Blocking/Parrying and certain Mythirians will also add to your block/parry/evade %. Source Grab Bag So as i can see, if you have 1 in shield it does affect your chance to block. So for the test i would propose a Char with zero shield AND a char with 1 shield, or just the zero shield one. Greetings. Ensiferum P.S.: I would offer myself for tests on Uth/Alb and on Pend if someone PMed me how to get Pend account working.

Braxis Eagle Knight Posts: 834 Joined: Jun 03, 2009 00:00	Reply with quote by Braxis » Mar 16, 2010 13:23 Isn't base chance to parry and block (for classes who can spec p/b) 5% +0.5% for every other point?

EnsisFerrum Gryphon Knight Posts: 346 Joined: Mar 15, 2010 01:00	Reply with quote by EnsisFerrum » Mar 16, 2010 13:32 Thats quite what i was trying to point out, just i dont know the base chance, but 5% i have heard a lot of times on live servers. My point actually is that even 1 in shield is superior to zero in shield by 0.5% Greetings Ensiferum

Blue Developer Posts: 15829 Joined: Apr 22, 2005 00:00	Reply with quote by Blue » Mar 16, 2010 13:46 EnsisFerrum wrote:Thats quite what i was trying to point out, just i dont know the base chance, but 5% i have heard a lot of times on live servers. My point actually is that even 1 in shield is superior to zero in shield by 0.5% Greetings Ensiferum I doubt it. Mythic handles 1 point in spec as if it was no point in spec. You can see that often because you need mostly one spec point above your level to match your level. Would like to see some tests. I made yesterday a quick check test with 312 Dex and Shieldspec 3 and had quite some blocks (over 30%). We definitely need more tests, quite large tests. Try to prevent parry in the tests. It's done when it's done. Thanks for your patience. Every bug gets fixed. Sooner or later. "It is an inescapable law of nature that the amount of satisfaction one gains from achieving something is related to how hard it is and easy things can only elicit a fleeting superficial sort of pleasure." Blue says, "you used macro tools or macro keyboard" Pala says, "i am disabled. and i have a mechanic left hand that can be programed. its hard to play woith one hand" [Appeal] Bxxxxxxxx: "why is RA first aid cann man i stealth use and not unstealth cann man ra if man use unstealth ?????????" BannedUser: "i was not using automate game action my hand was fall on keyboard during i was sleep .... i was completly fall on keyboard ..."

EnsisFerrum Gryphon Knight Posts: 346 Joined: Mar 15, 2010 01:00	Reply with quote by EnsisFerrum » Mar 16, 2010 14:07 You can see that often because you need mostly one spec point above your level to match your level. This is just for percentages, like damage, block, etc, but if you take a look at Stealth for example it has no effect if you put it beyond your lvl. (at rr 5 your virtual lvl increases by one for several things) But if you look at shield it does not make sense to say zero shield is as good as one, in my opinion. The difference is just half a percent but theres still a difference. if you want blocking without parry take a heretic or a scout, btw. Greetings Ensiferum

Glacius	Reply with quote by Glacius » Mar 16, 2010 14:49 This is what i know from live, a class with ability to spec shield and with no spec in it have 25% base chances to block, with 50 spec in shield u get 50% chance to block 25% base+ 25% spec (2 shield skil=1%). A class that cannot spec shield should have lower chance to block then a class that can spec shield but has no points in it,but i dont know how much that should be. If you take a paladin with 0 shield spec and u take a cleric , i m sure that fuly bufed the paladin will block more. Dont mix up the things , if you do a test do it on classes that spec and dont spec shield. [quote="Blue"][ Would like to see some tests. I made yesterday a quick check test with 312 Dex and Shieldspec 3 and had quite some blocks (over 30%). We definitely need more tests, quite large tests. Try to prevent parry in the tests.[/quot Test was done on pendragon or Uthgard ? PS I believe that unbufed a character has a chance to block lets say 50% with bufs you help him reach block cap which is 75% , its hard to say if ..from 200 dext and more the block rate will be afected , or any point of dext enhances blockrate thus , there must be a formula between: char lvl, spec in shield / classes who only wear shield , and dext stat..thats what we need to find out.