Eclipsed wrote:If your going to redesign it, consider its actual use of it and if it will be effective or not. If its going to be made to not be useful at all, just disable it and move on to other archer bugs.

How about consider what it is/was on live and the fact that it should be the same here instead of being a drama queen at the first sight of a possible fix which removes the OPed part and fixes exploits of an ability wrongly implemented.


Even if that ability in its current form favors you.

As im hybrid spec and has allwes been, i dont use volley in that sense like others do. But as a ranger with limited tools compared to others, with many bugs still, im trying to defend my class as an archer to hold onto or at least attempt to get my point across of the damage it does to remove yet another tool for the archer. Yes maybe it shouldnt be used for soloing but in its current stat its useless vs a grp, that even has one healer. But if you think a nerf of dropping the hit rate to nothing, vs a grp its not going to work still and vs solo it has no usefulness. Currently the problem on uthgard with volley is its OPness in solo situations, with a skill that is intented for scatering/killing a grp on a keep. Which is impossible because hitting 6 random people in a grp with just one healer doesnt nearly do any dmg to effect anything. Mythics intent was for vs grp and it isnt like that on uthgard, and if you think on live it should miss almost everything and vs a grp have little chance to hit, out of only 6 arrows, that doesnt make it effective vs Grps also. So how does it work on classic live that made it useful vs a grp in a siege ? Please explain then.

When ( not if ) they re-do volley to what they believe it should work compared to classic live, i hope they will look at it and think in what situations will it be useful, considering its usefulness in solo or grp play.

And for all of you that think it should be nerfed to high heaven so its never used again, think about if it was your class you play and they want to nerf one of your skills to the point it has no usefulness. Like adding immunity timers to all assasin poisons, making a purge a screw you. Or making style procs like on the reaver , modified by swing speed, making fast flex weapons do less dmg with the rear proc. Now these my all work as intented to live, that isnt my point, my point is , how would you feel having a useful skill not only nerfed, but to a point of just removing it from your qbar. Most info we find on old volley can be very confusing to understand the situation going on, and they are still told by players who prob dont know exactly how it works, since its not a comment by mythic dev's. A simple mis understanding of what someone is saying in a discription of what volley is , is to them, could just totaly make volley have no reasons for being implemented at all.

Eclipsed wrote: Like adding immunity timers to all assasin poisons, making a purge a screw you. Or making style procs like on the reaver , modified by swing speed, making fast flex weapons do less dmg with the rear proc.

This is no poison or levi proc thread. This is a bugged volley thread.

Runis wrote:

Eclipsed wrote: Like adding immunity timers to all assasin poisons, making a purge a screw you. Or making style procs like on the reaver , modified by swing speed, making fast flex weapons do less dmg with the rear proc.

This is no poison or levi proc thread. This is a bugged volley thread.

Read the full post before commenting.

Runis wrote:

Eclipsed wrote: Like adding immunity timers to all assasin poisons, making a purge a screw you. Or making style procs like on the reaver , modified by swing speed, making fast flex weapons do less dmg with the rear proc.

This is no poison or levi proc thread. This is a bugged volley thread.

So this is not the place for me to mention that Berserkers on Uthgard have been enjoying Berserk Mode for all this time without having the ZERO AF penalty that they are supposed to have?

Healowner wrote:

Eclipsed wrote:If your going to redesign it, consider its actual use of it and if it will be effective or not. If its going to be made to not be useful at all, just disable it and move on to other archer bugs.

How about consider what it is/was on live and the fact that it should be the same here instead of being a drama queen at the first sight of a possible fix which removes the OPed part and fixes exploits of an ability wrongly implemented.


Even if that ability in its current form favors you.

If this statement is true then it should apply to ALL the issues the archer is having to deal with here and not just what non archers percieve as overpowered. You bastards always want to fix things in your own favor but when a fellow player is suffering you dont give a damn about them.

Perceive is an understatement. Archers have an ability that is obviously over-powered and not live-like and it should be fixed.

Given the fact that I play merc and theurg, I don't see any abilities that are over-powered in such way and need urgent fixing on either class (except for theurg rr5 which is horribly overpowered!).

Healowner wrote:Perceive is an understatement. Archers have an ability that is obviously over-powered and not live-like and it should be fixed.

Given the fact that I play merc and theurg, I don't see any abilities that are over-powered in such way and need urgent fixing on either class (except for theurg rr5 which is horribly overpowered!).

I fail to see what is OP about volley except in specific situations (solo target), against a specific type of enemy (low defense, low HP classes with NO PETS).

I can give plenty of examples of classes that are OP in certain situations. Hey, how about Viper 3 assassins with vanish vs. almost any caster? How's that for OP?

The fact of the matter is that volley is the only way for high bow spec archer classes to do large amounts of damage quickly. Period.

If you compare the >sustained< DPS of a volley archer to almost any other high DPS class in the game, you would see that the volley archer loses. Badly. And that's before you begin to count things like melee, utility, defense, and group-ability.

Blue, can you respond to that?

Can any one actually disprove any thing I have said in this thread? Or will you just keep crying about how it's not live-like, on a server with an RA/patch system that will never be live-like?

Like I said, New RAs don't fit here, just fix the entire RA system or leave it ridiculously imbalanced as it is or should be.

Seyha wrote:If you compare the >sustained< DPS of a volley archer to almost any other high DPS class in the game, you would see that the volley archer loses. Badly. And that's before you begin to count things like melee, utility, defense, and group-ability.

An archer is not supposed to out-damage a DPS class, and it's definitely not supposed to have the same utility as a theurgist, for example.

Each class has it's own pros and cons as they were designed. This server aims to emulate the live design of these classes with their live-like abilities. I fail to see how fixing volley so that archers can no longer rape any visible soloer and making it as it is on live can be a bad thing.
And yes, I agree with the pro-archer changes aswell, all of those that are bugged.

Healowner wrote:An archer is not supposed to out-damage a DPS class.

This is an interesting statement. Can you explain why an archer should not be able to out-damage a DPS class with Bow?

The whole point of the archer class is to kill a target quickly from range, before one of four things happens:

1. The target intercepts the archer and interrupts the bow.
2. The target moves out of range.
3. The target Q/Cs a spell that interrupts the bow and mezz/stuns the archer.
4. The target is healed.

If the archer is not a "high DPS" class, then how is it supposed to accomplish its goal?

You're contradicting yourself, Healowner. Do you want the archer to be balanced or nerfed? If you want balance, then you have to accept that an archer will some times kill you from range. Quickly. That is what it is supposed to do.

There are a lot of bugs associated with volley, the biggest one being the camouflage bug. If this bug is fixed then you will see less volley archers, because they will be intercepted by other stealthers more. They can't volley you if they're dead.

The archer classes were all originally designed to severely weaken their prey with bow and finish them off with melee. That's why they do less damage than casters with ranged attacks - because they have much more defensibility (medium armor) and can spec in melee weapons. It was only around the time of ToA that Mythic's philosophy about them began to change and you started to see scouts who could do 1100 damage crit shots (buff botted with über ToA gear). They didn't originally envision archers as Legolas, but rather as Aragorn (I don't recall which Mythic dev made that comment, maybe someone can find it).

Seyha wrote:There are a lot of bugs associated with volley, the biggest one being the camouflage bug. If this bug is fixed then you will see less volley archers, because they will be intercepted by other stealthers more. They can't volley you if they're dead.

No, that's not going to limit them much. Most of the archers in hib have already learned to play as the scouts do - they just use desparate bowman to unbreakably stun a player in place and have their friend do the volley, then they speed boost away. The way volley works now, it's a guaranteed kill, and that's just never been how it worked on live.

Hunters need more DPS. They got bumped in later patches because everyone always knew they were gimp and Mythic finally listened. Hopefully the staff here will be willing to make an exception and improve hunters in some way closer to current live rather than trying to adhere to the rigid idea that hunters should be worthless because that's how Mythic originally made them.

Besides, it's already been demonstrated that the single-target damage done by archer classes is lower than it should be in another post.

I feel for you, I really do, but I think hunters should be fixed the right way and not by leaving in a broken, overpowered ability that's obviously not working right.

I think that it should be fairly easy to see that the class needs help. Just look at how few decent RR hunters there are. The LWRP column clearly shows that even though the highest hunter on the server is only RR7, most hunters just don't play that often. That issue needs to be addressed. We can only hope that Blue agrees.

Silverleaf wrote:So this is not the place for me to mention that Berserkers on Uthgard have been enjoying Berserk Mode for all this time without having the ZERO AF penalty that they are supposed to have?

Pointing things that doesnt work (if its really true) wont help you keep a wrong implemented volley. It's like saying: that ability doesnt work too, so why fix mine? Cmon wake up. IMO you are pushing it. Stay on topic - Volley.

If you think some ability doesn't work properly, do a decent bugreport in a separate thread.

Problem with many players in this game is they believe an archer shouldnt be able to match the DPS or survivablity of a pure melee class. That isnt true, now there is some classes like those whos main purpose is healing and in most situations dont have a chance in melee. But a archer should be equal to any other class, just in diffrent ways. Example an assasin has higher melee skills then a archer, with poisons, higher evade, better choice of styles. Not going to be as good as a pure melee class, but they make up for it with there high evade, poison and stealth attacks. Cant tell me an assasin cant take on almost any class in solo. Same goes for an archer, they do have weaker melee damage table, like the assasin, but the archer has access to better armor, because the lack of higher evade, and access to RAs like PD and IP. The archer also has high damage table for the bow, simular to pure melee classes, exept its for ranged attacks only, so if they are intrupted and put into melee range, there overall damage gets dropped down greatly, compared to others. If someone specs full bow spec, they are giving up any melee ablitiy they have, so there only chance at killing anything is doing alot of damage with bow in a few seconds. And since bow damage doesnt scale up so great with higher specs, as said on live, the only other option is the tools we get, which one is volley. And the volley every kitty is crying about is basicly volley 3 and 4, which require 45 to 50 bow, which at that high of bow, really cuts into your melee. But i know all that really means nothing to others, they get killed, they want to fix that. If you dont want them to use it for soloing, and for grp attacks only, then make it actualy worth wild vs a grp. Keeping in mind, a mesly 6 arrows into a grp means nothing. Heck even 12 arrows from 2 archers means nothing with the current volley into a grp at a keep. Little is known about how it works , but yet those who want it nerfed wants it to be live like, as in there minds its not worth using. So no matter what is done, they will not be satisfied till its implemented like that, that is very concerning.

Once again, volley is wrongly implemented in a way that never was active on live. Hence it's a bug, hence it needs to be fixed. No one is asking for volley to be nerfed, but to be fixed.