Well, I hate to use all that buff potions every time I go out from mpk, so for me it would be good, same limitation for all, less money to spend, more relax and fun ^^

Trishin wrote:

wcs2011 wrote:

Rajnish wrote:Under discussion. No decision has been made if we will or won't do such a thing.

Wow are u kidding me? Seriously discussing this? Watch how many assasains will quit this server if u limit buff/charges. Especially if its 2 max.

I think some might even create visible characters. Which I believe many hope they do.

Yeah trish, because rolling/playing an assasain class wud be pointless. Especially fighting against a ranger who can self buff. Even rolling a visi, wat wud be solo rvr? there probably wudnt be any. Yes u can solo on a visi, but not as effective because ur visible.

Blue wrote:

Magicco wrote:wasn't there a rumor that everything should be livelike blabla towards 1.69?

oh i forgot... some things are the same, and some thing are more same

Thats why we revised this decision. Nobody in the staff likes customizations. And that is a big one.

So when will charge values return to their livelike delve? Even im not playing any Solo toon anymore, its also gimp in grpplay if ur AF Charge is nerfed, haste Charge and so on?

You do know that stat buff charges were nerfed, not AF/haste, right?

Ciriola got the point .

The point is actually quite simple, either remove them or let them have full value, if you partially remove them you will introduce further imbalances that im quite sure never was thought through, such as hybrid weapon skill tables, that need both d/q and s/c to be on the same lvl as full str, it wont really help casters at all, since damage output wont really decrease from the normal dps, only their melee survivability (abla charge, af charge, d/q charge) where as all the caster defense vanishes. But great, it will cost you less money. Though charges and pots is probably the biggest money eater for your favorite inflation argument.

wcs2011 wrote:Watch how many assasains will quit this server if u limit buff/charges. Especially if its 2 max.

Not enough.

There were Assasins even before you were able to craft Barrels/Bottles and before everyone had 10 Charges active....

Blue wrote:

Magicco wrote:wasn't there a rumor that everything should be livelike blabla towards 1.69?

oh i forgot... some things are the same, and some thing are more same

Thats why we revised this decision. Nobody in the staff likes customizations. And that is a big one.

you could at least temporarily do it, until OF RAs arrive and assasins are mortal again...

also you claim to be a strict anti-buffbot-server and even have some custom buff-range-checks etc., but you don't wanna implement a pot-limit? wow no thats what I'd call random or even inconsistant custimisation

no matter what descission you take, players will blame you...either the ones excessively using pots or the ones, that hate "having to use" them...so you might as well follow your anti-bb-rule and limit potions...I'm pretty sure there's more support for this descission than for keeping the current system

Aragorn wrote:There were Assasins even before you were able to craft Barrels/Bottles and before everyone had 10 Charges active....

sure there were and sure they were "good"...but assasins have much higher advantage from pots:
- they gain much more from qui and haste buffs, then "other" characters
- their disadvantage, lower health, compared to main tanks is sort of negated by pots, which makes them even stronger
- they have debuffs, which are even more efficient vs enemies buffs, so they whole pot-thing improves their debuffs
- damage add buffs are pretty powerful on dual wielders (which most non-stealthers arent)
- they gain a lot from all 4 stats, that can be buffed, while "normal" tanks only really gain from str and con (dex is only important for block/parry, qui is negligible)

i guess most of these things have been mentioned already and maybe not every of my points is valid (in terms of relevant), but one cant deny that buff-pots power assasins more than most other classes (especially the ones with selfbuffs, which are "typical" solo classes usually (friar, thane, hunter, ranger, champion and ofc the supps (cleric, shamy, bard etc.) and prolly some more)

We have a non-custom solution in mind.

We are still debating internally though.

Just be patience

Trishin wrote:We have a non-custom solution in mind.

We are still debating internally though.

Just be patience

I keep hearing this "be patient, we're debating this" for months...this really reminds of the circle of ents (in lord of the rings) discussing on the saruman-issue, where treebeard says after some hours of discussion, that they have only just said "hello" or something...

it's not like there's 2438573 GMs, which have to find a mutual agreement...

sorry, if this post is a little "impatient" and may even sound offending or rude, but I really don't understand what takes you so long to decide on this issue

Your point of view is very.... simple. There are many things to consider, that go far beyond your 2-3 favourite classes vs. your 2-3 favourite opponents. Live daoc was never balanced for a game without buffbots, so just removing pots is not really going to be balanced.

And if you keep some sort of buffs, you have to consider many things:
- What buffs should be available
- Who should have acces
- How should they be available? How easy should they be available? What are the costs (not neccessarily in gold)

A few simple examples, giving out only basebuffs to reduce the overall impact of buffs would put classes with basebuffs (warden, friar, ....) in disadvantage. Giving out only specbuffs would put classes like champions or thanes in disadvantage, since they have their most useful specbuff already. Giving out a fixed number of buffs would put classes in disadvantage that need more buffs for the same result, like pierce users. Increasing cost/limiting availability would put casual players in big disadvantage.

Personally, I would like a solution that gives you the choice of what to improve, lets say you can choose between an offensive stat buff (str/dex/int), a defensive stat buff (con, AF, maybe ABS) and a utility buff (dmgadd, haste), so you could only pick one at a time. That would increase versatility while limiting your overall performance to the picked area. But then, that would be VERY custom and even I could not tell all the effects it has, considering there are so many possibilities of classes / groups facing each other.

ofc its not thaat nice and simple, but it is not that hard to make a decission...right now few really benefit from the pots and the others just use it to minimise their disadvantage...

lets assume 2 buffs are available, be it spec, base, haste, dmg add, regens etc.

- ppl needing only 1 stat could use spec + base stat and gain a lot in that stat, but would sacrifice other stats (like dex or qui for def and speed)...
- some players might max their dps by using haste and dmg add, but would lower their weap skill and thus be more vulnerable to high def enemies
- casters could chose between high health, quicker casts or more dmg (aqcuity) or even mana reg
- players which already have buffs would benefit most from the system as they could just add the buffs they lack (i.e. friars would chose str/con, thanes/champs might use base str and some other buffs (spec dex, dmg add, haste, whatever)
- if a player ran 2 buffs he'd have to remove one to use regen-pots in fight, which would make these more tactical, as they'd have less dmg/weap skill/whatever for the next 60s...

as i said, that wouldnt be perfect but i really suppose that the GMs "debating" this for the last months have already thought of many and many a way to implement it, so why not make a final decission? it's not like they couldnt improve the "new" system over time (if it turns out to be imbalanced, which ANY system will at first)...I'd rather see a more or less balanced system, which can be improved than the current system which forces players to grind gold for barrels and think about "how long" they have time to play (ever tried playing for like 10-15 mins only, if u wanted to use barrels as well? either u go unbuffed (or semibuffed) for the first minutes or u wait the first 5 mins and need to log again after 5 mins )...no simple "lets see whats happing in this zone" except for fully selfbuffing classes (one reason for me to make a smite cleric, even though i'm sure it will perform very poorly in end rvr ))

Fore sure if this happen, i roll a melee ranger ^^

Orihiime wrote:Fore sure if this happen, i roll a melee ranger ^^

Wouldn't that also complete your collection of characters?