Uhm... I did help you with finding a formula that fits your tests.

I do know there is defense penetration on live.

That does not change the fact that people hit evade/block caps on live. Remember your test were done with a SB with very low stats.

Jarysa wrote:That does not change the fact that people hit evade/block caps on live. Remember your test were done with a SB with very low stats.

Check this out:

http://vnboards.ign.com/albion_stealther_professions/b20906/111471950/p1/?36

Its not a great test, and the tester's own conclusions don't match the results, but the results are interesting.

A Reaver with Evade 1, 349 dex and 250 quick had a 4.25% evade rate against a Mercenary. That's lower than the 5% base evade rate from Evade 1, even with buffed dex and quick.

I admit I don't know how much dex and quick benefit evade. What I do know is that defense penetration is done in fractions. You could have an 80% base evade rate, but if you go up against a fully buffed main tank that evade rate could be cut by 1/2 or more.

that vn post wrote:Well, a couple years ago I tested evade on two identically equipped infiltrators, and the evade rate was 47% after 9,000+ attacks.

We definitely lack understanding of how defenses work exactly (and there is no data of stats/skills/etc from that test), but, as I've said before, hitting defense caps (or getting very close) is not unusual on live servers.

With the formula i proposed in your other thread it doesn't matter what you consider to be the base defense rate (as long as you have the corresponding enemy str/weap spec/etc.), as the function deriving the actual evade rate is a n-linear form on R^N.

Edit: It doesn't matter for DEFENSE PENETRATION. It does matter for calculation of base defense rate, ofc.

I'm sorry, Jarysa, I don't understand how your formula would work. Could you elaborate?

I can try.

Basically in DoL you have a function that projects some number of properties of the defender on a defense rate.

Let's call the function D, the properties d1,...,dn and the defense rate x.

So when you want to get some defense rate x, it will be x=D(d1,...,dn)

You would still do that with what i proposed.
But there would be another function for defense penetration which projects some number of properties of the attacker on a defense penetration modifier.

Let's call the function DP, the properties a1,...,am and the modifier y.

If you now want to calculate the actual defense rate z, you get z=xy=D(d1,...,dn)*DP(a1,...,am)

Obviously you need y=1 if you want z=x, so you need to specify a m-tuple (a1*,...,am*) with D(a1*,...,am*)=1.

Jarysa wrote:It's amusing how people think defense rates on Uthgard are too high.

Ya its so funny that someone tested and proved this fact.


btw, here is a video of a paladin blocking hardly any attacks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pse9Nwp0fts

I guess this single video proves block rates should be near 0.

Oh wait, no it doesn't that takes actual testing.

Ye, a rr1 unbuffed pala in epic against fully buffed ToA equipped enemies.

I'm talking about common RvR situations.

I talked to the guy, who was the highest hero on Lyo for another 2 years after he quit playing, last week and he agreed that his guard rate against fully buffed/equipped non dw tanks was >90%. I played live less than a year ago and a fully buffed, high mob warrior definitely has a >99% block chance against yellow/orange mobs. I actually remember how people cried about buffed assassins with high dodger evading all of their attacks before the evade cap. I'm able to read and understand the test results of that guy on VN which says two infiltrators attacking each other have a 47% evade rate.

Why don't you just STFU if you have no live experience?

over 90% blockrate through guard on live? ROFL.

Ya, I have no live experience, all my playtime was basically pre NF. I quit live because NF was trash.


Setup a test with the same stats you see on uthgard, using live, and test guard rate, its not going to be over 90%. But until you test, you can't make wild claims about 90+% guard rate.


Also, on uthgard these defensive rates are not just reached by the #1 Hero on some euro random server, but by anyone with 42 shield.

Maybe you will recall that not every tank even had access to MoB before NF.

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/641/blockfc.png

Euro group that farmed the ******* out of the baddies on US classic btw.

Sorry couldn't resist.

*100k kills and 600 deaths for that char. http://guilds.camelotherald.com/charact ... ain1&c=123



Edit: Blockrate is capped at 60% against other players now, so this can not be tested anymore, but only extrapolated. Good job on not knowing that, tho.

Q: With the new changes to Block/Parry/Evade, what are the % caps on these abilities? It seems like parry and evade are going off 50% of the time, yet the Large Shield wearers now seem to be blocking 90-99% of all frontal attacks. If this is true, why wouldn't the % on the be brought down to 50% as well, considering using /stick will easily put an opponent in front of you at all times?



A: From the Redhead: �Evade caps at 50%, as does parry, but block does not. We're closely monitoring the changes and its effects on RVR before we decide exactly what action to take regarding the cases where block rates can reach near 100% levels.�

http://www.camelotherald.com/news/news_article.php?storyid=2948

Greetings

Jarysa wrote:I'm able to read and understand the test results of that guy on VN which says two infiltrators attacking each other have a 47% evade rate.

I wouldn't take anything that tester said at face value. I linked to the test because you wanted an example of how heavily buffed dexterity and quickness benefited evade rate. The answer is: not enough to compensate for what we can assume was a templated and buffed main tank.

As for block rate, I guess... I could do some testing on Pendragon. But if Blue has already done extensive block testing I'd rather not reinvent the wheel.

p.s. I totally support a 60% cap on block for Uthgard.

EnsisFerrum wrote:http://www.camelotherald.com/news/news_article.php?storyid=2948

Greetings

Pure incompetence. What kind of ill-conceived design would make it possible to achieve 100% defense rate from a common, passive skill?

Jarysa wrote:http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/641/blockfc.png

Euro group that farmed the [I am a little bunny and like flowers]* out of the baddies on US classic btw.

Sorry couldn't resist.

*100k kills and 600 deaths for that char. http://guilds.camelotherald.com/charact ... ain1&c=123



Edit: Blockrate is capped at 60% against other players now, so this can not be tested anymore, but only extrapolated. Good job on not knowing that, tho.

lol, mad?

It's great game design, because it allows defensive tanks to actually do something in RvR unlike in every other game. It encourages working as a team on a level way beyond wow's assist -> press damage macro. Class imbalance is one of the things making DAoC great. If that means a healer can't solo at all or a hero wtfpwnz a hunter ... who cares?

Force wrote:lol, mad?

lol, retarded?

don't be so angry bro, relax.