Hope defense penetration gets fixed soon, thanks for the testing!


Also interesting to note that the savage with equal weaponstats/spec as the Skald has more weaponskill on live, aren't they on the same table on uthgard?

Force wrote:Hope defense penetration gets fixed soon, thanks for the testing!


Also interesting to note that the savage with equal weaponstats/spec as the Skald has more weaponskill on live, aren't they on the same table on uthgard?

They shouldn't be, unless that was a 1.80+ change. From the test it looks like they're one tier below the Berserk.

I could be wrong but I think there's another tier in between savage and zerk/merc/bm/arms/hero with the valewalker on it.

Savage, vw, and reaver are on the same table just below zerker, bm, merc, when they wield their special weapons: h2h, scyte, flex.

Nice tests , good thing you can use lower lvl weapon and u dont have to stay and heal the defender ) .

1% can be accepted as a margin of error but the results came out prety nice even so .

I wanted to ask you seyha with bersy and sb you ve hit 1h the sb? saw ppl complaining that dw doesnt halve evade etc anymore on live, well if u hit 1h wit ha berseker its same way as a warior , just that on live there is no halved evade vs DW while on uthg it should be.

Also, why isn't the sb u had as target caped for dext and quic ?i know that the test would have showed a diference among the tanks from different tiers but the numbers would have been diferent , higher in my opinion and more clearly to see because 0.5 between skald and shadowblade is not a great diference 1% can be easily missinterpreted
This is blockrate diference between a paladin and an arms attacking heretic, all are caped stats .


Attacker: arms 1+12 thrust,248 str,302 dext ,WS 1053
Defender: heretic 50 shield spec ,dext 168 ,WS 749
Total: 1513
Hit:904
Block: 513
miss: 96
Blockrate: 33,90%

Attacker:pala 1+12 thrust , str 248, dext 302 ,WS 909
Defender: heretic 50 shield spec ,dext 168 ,WS 749
Total: 1491
Hit: 782
Block: 647
Miss: 62
Blockrate : 43.39%




And from where you ve pulled 37.2% unmodified chance to evade ?

Glacius wrote:I wanted to ask you seyha with bersy and sb you ve hit 1h the sb? saw ppl complaining that dw doesnt halve evade etc anymore on live, well if u hit 1h wit ha berseker its same way as a warior , just that on live there is no halved evade vs DW while on uthg it should be.

I'm worried about this. These defense rates look reasonable without an additional defense penalty from weapon type. When we consider that these defense rates will be halved by DW/LA, they become less reasonable...

The Berserker in this test only has 1 in weapon spec. With 50 weapon spec and the defense penalty from LA... the SB would have maybe a 12% chance to evade? That seems wrong.

But then again, the SB can always use STR/CON debuff to even things out a little.

Also, why isn't the sb u had as target caped for dext and quic ?

If I had max'd dex and quick for the SB, then the evade rate for the Runemaster test would have been over the evade cap and the data would be useless. I wanted to be able to test all Weapon Skill tables without the risk of hitting the evade cap.

And from where you ve pulled 37.2% unmodified chance to evade ?

This is the formula I use to calculate unmodified evade rates: http://roclar.net/DAoC/info.php#Defense

What he means that if you Dual wield weapons on uthgard you get 50% penalty to evade and block regardless of specs.
This is not the case on Live, because this feature has been removed.

Greetings
Ensiferum

EnsisFerrum wrote:What he means that if you Dual wield weapons on uthgard you get 50% penalty to evade and block regardless of specs.

Yes, and that 50% penalty will be in addition to the penalties I have tested here.

So a Troll Berserker with 50 Weapon Spec and 250+ strength will cut his target's evade rate down to almost nothing.

Seyha wrote:

EnsisFerrum wrote:What he means that if you Dual wield weapons on uthgard you get 50% penalty to evade and block regardless of specs.

Yes, and that 50% penalty will be in addition to the penalties I have tested here.

So a Troll Berserker with 50 Weapon Spec and 250+ strength will cut his target's evade rate down to almost nothing.

You dont know yet how much it will cut it:) , will lower it yes but not to nothing and the way it was calculated we cant really know ..maybe halving is 1st and ws comes after ..or ws cuts then dw lowers it. .
And the reason why u didnt cap the sb's dex quic stats is silly , caping evade for runem.. i want to see it for higher tiers .

And about rocklar formula, for block is not used atm on uthg, Blue said it, dunno for evade..so its better not to make calculations based on that.

Alos he said this :

Blue wrote:Evade is reduced by 3% per additional attacker on Uthgard from what I see in code.

Don't know whether this was tested.

In patches they ve said about parry that had a penalty VS more attackers until patch 1.87 and that they ve changed it after..could be right..could be wrong..dunno.

Block vs more attackers, evade VS more attackers and parry VS more attackers could work diferently ..

anyone who could sum up what the test showed?

nixian wrote:anyone who could sum up what the test showed?

around 280 weapon stat for an attacker will modify an enemy's evade rate by varying amounts dependent upon the attackers table.

It didn't demonstrate how weapon spec effects this defense penetration, and it didn't show the relationship between higher defense on the defender's part from different levels of evade (1-7), or buffs (savages) or from stat (dex + quick /2).


I think its pretty obvious to everyone that higher weapon stat especially, and also higher weapon spec helps you to penetrate defenses of those you attack. A lot more testing is needed to find out exactly how much per point of weaponstat (and im sure there are diminishing returns so testing will need to be done at many stat levels) effects penetration for each table, as well as weapon spec, and how defender's stats specifically effect rates as well.

It also showed that Savages are on a better table than hybrids.

Force if u want to see savage dmg table compared to skald dmg table go make a savage , use same spd claw with same spd 1h hammer for skald under same stats and spec attacking same target and check out the dmg .
1-2% can be an accepted error within 2000 hits, foor under 1% error u need more then 2000 hits ..

does anyone know if this is how it works on uth? has any uth tests been made?

nixian wrote:does anyone know if this is how it works on uth? has any uth tests been made?

On uthg i m prety sure WS and class tiers dont affect defensive abilities , thing is we make tests ..GM s see em and thats it, test what on uthg? the GM s know how they are..why should we loose 10 hours with tests on uthg when staff can have a look how they r set.

Glacius wrote:

nixian wrote:does anyone know if this is how it works on uth? has any uth tests been made?

On uthg i m prety sure WS and class tiers dont affect defensive abilities , thing is we make tests ..GM s see em and thats it, test what on uthg? the GM s know how they are..why should we loose 10 hours with tests on uthg when staff can have a look how they r set.

was simply wondering why these tests were made