And here is what every hib classes stats will be if they used 1 charge buff and 1 pot, just before combat, compared to no buffs post above this one. I only entered data that had changes, or at least was more then 1%.

Bard
_____________________
-Charge/Pot Buff-
Str/Con = 56
Haste = 17%

WS = 1254 (+171 WS = +15.8%)
HP = 1727 (+202 HP = +13.2%)

Blademaster
_____________________
-Charge/Pot Buff-
Str/Con = 56
Str = 20

WS = 1546 (+282 WS = +22.3%)
HP = 1825 (+246 HP = +15.6%)

Champion
_____________________
-Charge/Pot Buff-
Dex/Qui = 63
Str = 20

WS = 1452 (+65 WS = +4.7%)

Evade = 13% (+3% = +30%)
Block = 30% (+7% = +30.4%)
Parry = 40% (+6% = +17.6%)

Druid
_____________________
-No Change-

Hero
_____________________
-Charge/Pot Buff-
Str/Con = 56
Str = 20

WS = 1546 (+282 WS = +22.3%)
HP = 2026 (+271 HP = +15.4%)

Nightshade
_____________________
-Charge/Pot Buff-
Str/Con = 56
Dex = 20

WS = 1102 (+117 WS = +11.9%)
HP = 1410 (+202 HP = +16.7%)

Ranger
_____________________
-Charge/Pot Buff-
Str/Con = 56
Dex = 20

Pierc WS = 1174 (+106 WS = +9.9%)
Bow WS = 1533 (+70 WS = +4.8%)
HP = 1480 (+202 HP = +15.8%)

Valewalker
_____________________
-Charge/Pot Buff-
Str/Con = 56
Dex = 20

WS = 1442 (+235 WS = +19.5%)
HP = 1529 (+202 HP = +15.2%)

Warden
_____________________
-Charge/Pot Buff-
Str/Con = 56

WS = 1327 (+201 WS = +17.8%)
HP = 1727 (+237 HP = +15.9%)

Casters
*********************

Animist
_____________________
-Charge/Pot Buff-
Dex/Qui = 63
Acuity = 20

Caster Stat = 301 (+20 = +7.1%)
Cast Speed = 218 (23.7%) (+9.45% spd = +66.3%)

Eldritch
_____________________
-Charge/Pot Buff-
Dex/Qui = 63
Acuity = 20

Caster stat = 301 (+20 = +7.1%)
Cast speed = 246 (28%) (+9.55% spd = +51.8%)

Enchanter
_____________________
-Charge/Pot Buff-
Dex/Qui = 63
Acuity = 20

Caster stat = 301 (+20 = +7.1%)
Cast speed = 246 (28%) (+9.55% spd = +51.8%)

Mentalist
_____________________
-Charge/Pot Buff-
Dex/Qui = 63
Acuity = 20

Caster stat = 301 (+20 = +7.1%)
Cast speed = 246 (28%) (+9.55% spd = +51.8%)

As you can see, non self buffing classes gain the most from just 2 buffs, exept the NS. And my poor ranger gains little, compared to with no charges/pots. That is why i believe the classes that gain self buffs, is part of that classes effectioncy and by giving out buffs, maybe not as great as self buffs, but still, lowers self buffing classes effectioncy from there buffs, compared to those who dont have self buffs with charges/pots. The only ones i see really hurtting is the casters cast speed, but then again some enemys will have less HP , which makes spells more effective and with OLD RAs makes there CCs more useful, and cast speed RA.

if charges are removed what will then happen with charges that have been in daoc for a long long time and items already having charges on?

or what will happen to legion loot? pretty much no point in raiding him then
or tajendi loot?

loL tajendi2 loot is nice aswell also w/o charges...

well that is all up to the staff, what can be done. If removing charged buffs and pot buffs is a good idea. It all depends on how hardcore they want to be with a classic feel, since origenaly i dont believe mythic intended everyone to be running around with buffs, and in time they intended to make some money on that, then over time they just started making buffs a requirement to have.

There is other options for charges, that are not buffs, like a short duration 11 dps dmg add, dmg shield, Health buffer, and so on. People should be raiding for better look to improve there templates, not to get more powerful with buffs, compared to those who are not able to get into raids as easy, or maybe are in a realm that doesnt have DF as often. Since we went to OF, hib has been lacking of holding enough keeps to have DF, because its easyer for enemy grps to stop and take one, while hib grps arent going to go out of there way to do it. I dont know why they dont, but that is there choice. But that opens up the avalibitiy of DF loot for some realms more then other realms. And that a str/con charged necklace is quiet desired, just shows the affect it has on game play.

The best i wouldnt consider with keeping some kinda buffs , would be pots. Since the values are not that high and anyone can gain access to them, unless some charged items that are easyer for some classes to get into a grp to raid and for some realms compared to the rest. Also you could raise pot durations to 20 min to make up for the lost of charged buffs and since OF is a long run/wait time. Its ether that or remove both, or just have buffbots and be easy mode for non buffing classes, heck mythic seen how it turned into , that they gave the buffs for the ranger/hunter/ and now the scout free buffs by bow spec, since having to spec in a extra line for buffs is pointless, while others got free buffs and didnt have to waste there pts on them.

The main question here is , back during classic, depending how far back you think classic is. Do you think mythic origenaly intended Self buffs to be part of that classes effectioncy or where there self buffs just away to make buffing themself easyer. How much of a role do you think those self buffs play for that class. And if you believe that mythic origenaly intended self buffs to be a feature of that class, and not a luxuray, then removing of buffed charges and pots maybe a direction for uthgard, and they shouldnt let pass hard work to gain these items to stop the server from going in the direction they intend. People my lose there charges, but they still got the item for templating, and if that charge is so dam importent to there game play, then maybe these charges are just a little too importent, in these buff wars.

I also got another question, compared to classic live and uthgard, is it easyer to get these unique boss loot on uthgard then it is on classic live, as i mean are the bosses harder on live/drop rate and so on, or is it the same or harder ? And on classic live, was charged items origanly part of the game or not. Because self buffed classes where.

Please do not remove content from the game.

There must be some stuff like raid for charges, craft for potions, money & BPs for recharge.

It's booring to level and RvR all the time without haveing the oportunity to improve your equipt.

a charged buff or pot doesnt improve an item, if no one else has them too. Currently, running with charged buffs and pots are a requirement in most cases, and it benifites non buffers more in most cases. So by removing it, there is no reason these items would be less valuable. Right now you want the buffs because your enemy has it. So take that away from your enemy too and you dont need it. The removal of charged buffs and pots is about balancing self buffing classes, which those classes are less effective without there self buffs.

Everyone needs to stop looking at it as, you lose your charged buff from your necklace, because you need it to compete. They need to look at it as i dont need it now because my enemy doesnt. with buffed charges/pots = You need, enemy has. Without charged/pot buffs = you dont need, enemy doesnt have. The reason these things are so importent right now, is because everyone is running with these buffs. Take away the need and dont be a buff server, like you aimed with by removing buffbots.

I would say, remove charges y, but why pots? Pots are easy to make etc. not that expensive then charges. IF someone is to lazy to make pots for himself its not the fault of someone else. With charges its another thing, some of em are hard to get and also charges are really really expensive with 10g/10mins...

Regards

Removing charges won't affect only solos... If a duo/trio runs without specbuffer it gives them more chance to compete. For example I can't imagine a bard + caster duo without d/q charges... Not to mention that in fg, not every group has enough concentration to buff everything. Nerfing charges and bp costs already affected group balance, especially casters who got int charge nerfed from +75 to +41...

And what about spec AF charge, pom charge/pots ? They are buffs too, yet if they are removed it's a big nerf for hib groups. On the other hand, if you remove only stat charges/potions, it's not really fair for mids who run with only 1 specbuffer and albs with 2 clerics and no basebuffer, cause they may want to use a charge if there is a lack of conc. Hibs don't have this problem. How would you balance that ?

The best i wouldnt consider with keeping some kinda buffs , would be pots. Since the values are not that high and anyone can gain access to them

wouldn't that be an arguement to say: lets keep charges and remove pots, so its only few who have those "uber imba buffs" and not everyone? would make it viable for players without charges and self buffs to go out more as they would have much bigger chance of finding someone without buffs?

was really ****** after the charges got nerfed (took a 3 month? break) , well thats offtopic^^

perspective as a chanter:
it is pointless to solo , the "gimped" charges are just another caster nerf.way too many stealthers (unstyled hit with viper3 kills me - not that hard to do from stealth^^)
the all so mighty "i win now" button (stun) doesn´t do anything these days. everything i jump got purge up ... and even if it sticks i get a whoping 2 nukes off during the duration after the debuff sticks.thats not even enough to kill another caster.
wouldn´t change anything to me if you remove them completly.
i cast my spells at ~1.7 second speed(d/q charge+dex pot) while tanks hit me at 1.5 speed(haste charge+d/q charge) - while dealing roughly the same damage to me in melee than i do to them at range (at a higher amount of time - cloth armor ftl.)
even fricking archers can shoot faster than i could cast

nothing in the world would make me run solo again with the current settings. could QQ more but nobodys gonna care anyway.

perspective as ranger: (rarly play it^^)
you need every charge you can get to be competative.why ?
cause everybody else runs them.
its like going to rvr with a drop armor and expect to kill something.
try to duel somebody with a haste charge and repeat the duel without it.didn´t farm all these charges ? well then you got a problem.

perspective as ani (ditched it completly)
same as chanter , just that the castspeed is even worse ^^ only charge i would miss is the pom charge.doesn´t matter at all as long as just 1/3 of the class is implemented.


removing manapots however would literally force me to quit for good unless there is an alternative (where are the bp totems ?) .
you are already forced to get MCL2 + RP to have enough mana for a 2 minute fight - without these manapots i can be complete oom in less than 40 seconds .


long story short:

[x]restore the old charge values to livelike values
or
[x]remove them once and for all - everything else is just custom BS nobody wants.

removing mana pots would kill group rvr for me (all that i got left ...)

<-- rather gets a potion then farm forever for a specific item or pay prices that are far beyond reason becuase everybody has to have them^^

and i dont have to fit potions into my sc.
and they cost me cash, not bp.
ok, they arent as strong and it takes me twice as logn to buff basicly, but i run only with haste mostly anyway. sometimes str/con. on ranger.
mostly haste.

you know how funny it was to pay 35 plat for a s/c charge just to get it nerfed to oblivion one ****** day later ?
(along with my ability to solo with my casters cause the castingspeed was even crapier than before)

ONE DAY - poof and all was gone

what did tanks loose ? 20 dex they don´t need anyway- so ****** what ?20 str , big whoop aswell.20 dex for ME as a caster mean 0,1 -0,2 seconds faster castspeed -> that is huge! and it´s even worse cause IT ADDS UP !

its almost exactly the speed for the final "nuke" that is missing for the kill.

3xx dex to 28x dex - thats feels like the difference from 150qui to 250qui as a tank.

go on - remove the d/q charge completly ! have fun with your chargetanks and purge3 assasins while cripling castspeed even further.casters are way to overpowered so they deserve that nerf!

and as i said, to many people are seeing this as a removal of there buffs, while they think all there enemys will be the same difficulty, even though there enemys will be lacking buffs too, exept those who have self buffs. But this kinda change will prob not be possible, uthgard has to listen to the masses and give what they want. I think that is what mythic did, what a great game it turned into lol.

Eclipsed wrote:and as i said, to many people are seeing this as a removal of there buffs, while they think all there enemys will be the same difficulty, even though there enemys will be lacking buffs too, exept those who have self buffs. But this kinda change will prob not be possible, uthgard has to listen to the masses and give what they want. I think that is what mythic did, what a great game it turned into lol.

For a caster vs tank situations this logic doesnt count. An unbuffed zerker will eat you up as a caster if he reaches you. You prevent him from reaching you by using you spells, however without dex/qui and base dex pot u're not going to be able to cast more than 1 or if lucky 2 spells before he's in melee range.

Smooth wrote:Please do not remove content from the game.

There must be some stuff like raid for charges, craft for potions, money & BPs for recharge.

It's booring to level and RvR all the time without haveing the oportunity to improve your equipt.

No. It's boring to have to improve equip to be competitive (good thing though this is only the case for solo-RvR and not group-RvR). PvE effort boosting your RvR strenght is more WoWish then classic DAoC like.