Eclipsed does still have a point though that self buffs are meant to balance out some of the difference between classes

ie.

hero vs champ

hero = better WS / RAs (old setting atleast)
champ = lower WS / worse RAs, but have self s/c and debuffs


scout = shield (anytime 9 sec stun - very powerful in old RAs)
ranger = dual wield + selfbuffs

and that is not based on a everyone should kill everyone but a "there needs to be somewhat of balance between the same kind of classes (archer vs archer, assassin vs assassin, tank vs tank, dps vs dps, caster vs caster)"

I'd still like to know how you will balance it for groups. Alb without haste charge will be awesome...

yep, and i dont mean that a ranger could have an edge over a purge melee class, with him having stealth and bow, because a ranger with high enough stealth and a bow spec, will have less melee, so he will have a harder time vs melee, if he doesnt take advantage of his bow and stealth first. But currently on uthgard and ranger can dmg a light tank or tank to like half or more, then enter melee and just be raped in seconds, it shouldnt be like that. The tank/light tank will still do better melee dmg, but it shouldnt be that great. If a ranger specs no stealth , full melee and full PF, the tanks and light tanks will still have a small edge, but its very small, since the ranger cant sneak attack now.

What makes a purge melee class , good at melee is there specing and effectiveness for melee. A ranger for example, has to spec PF, so that eats up points, and its not for a edge over the enemy, its to balence them to other classes. Maybe about 40-42 PF, anything higher is kinda fluff, but at a great cost to your melee , bow, or stealth. While a tank/light tank can easly spec full melee and full defense skills like parry or shield. Those who spec shield only for shield slam is fluff, but can still do so and gain a decent parry %. If you dont believe me, try specing a ranger for good melee , good buffs and so on compared to a purge melee class.

But a shield spec for a class like a scout isnt fluff, since they cant dual wield or use 2h weapons, so it is a requirement on there proformence, giving much greater defense and a stun. And to take full advantage of that, all they have to do is trick there enemy to blow purge or have it down. Which isnt hard, just look threw the shield style to fiqure that one out, there is a style that was intended for that kinda use.

Yes the druid has haste, while the clerics have spec AF, while the shaman has a dmg add. I wonder if mythic intended each realm to have something unique to each.

And if you albs want haste, get a theurgist in your grp.

Sure let's make alb groups even less flexible than they already are by forcing them to take a bugged class. No doubt hibs will take a mana menta in their groups for pom too.

In other words, you don't like to die in 1vs1 so you want to change the whole server balance. Yeah, nice.

so what class on hib provides spec AF, like the albs get from there cleric ? I know some of you grp vs grp players like a mindless grp in easy mode, but you got to get use to some brain activity and spend a sec to think. If theurgist are bugged, make a bug report to get it fixed, DA.

And if 1v1 is balanced, why would that make grp vs grp unbalanced. That doesnt make sense.

Eclipsed wrote:One concern about the thread was about the value of alchemy and charged items. But there is alot of use in alchemy still, like the heal pots, end pots, and power pots. Plus thoses procs, charges and reactives are still useful. Stat buffs are just a small part of it.

I see it now so clearly!

So it's ok to remove buff potions and charges, but it's not ok to remove endurance and power regeneration pots and charges and heal, end and power pots, becouse, you know, PoM and end regen and healing AREN'T class abilities like buffs, oh no, they are in some strange way DIFFERENT, and if every class has them than that is somehow more fair than if every class has buffs.

actually he is talking about the insta heal ones and not over time buffs so you totally misunderstood him nymeros

Alb===

Cleric - str,con,dex,s/c,d/q, base af, spec af, health regen , acuity, defesivie proc, PBAOE timed buffs, magic resist buffs

Friar - str,con,dex, base af, magic resist buffs

Sorc - Power regen, speed chant, mez damp chant

Theurg - Dmg add, haste, Pulse BT, speed chant

Wiz - Dmg add, Dmg shield

Minstrel - health regen song, power regen song, health buffer song, speed song

Paladin - heal chant, dmg add chant, spec af chant, fatigue regen chant, resist chant

Mid===

BD - ABS buff

Healer - str,con,dex,base af, magic resist, haste, power regen, speed

Runemaster - Dmg Add, Pulse BT, speed chant

shaman - health regen, base af, str, con, dex, s/c,d/q, dmg add, magic resist buff, fatigue regen, acuity, pbaoe buffs, dmg shield

skald - speed chant, health regen song, dmg add chant, magic resist song

spiritmaster - dmg shield

Hib===

Animist - Dmg shield, magic resist shroom, ABS buff, health buffer shroom

Bard - base af, str, con,dex, speed song, power song, fatigure regen song, health regen song, magic resist song

Druid - base af, str,con,dex,haste, s/c,d/q, magic resist, acuity, pbaoe buffs, dmg shield

Eldritch - Dmg shield

Enchanter - Dmg shield, dmg add, speed chant

Mentalist - dmg shield, power regen

Valewalker - Dmg shield

Warden - base af, str,con,dex, magic resist, speed chant, dmg add chant, Pulse BT

Maybe missing a few things, but as you can see, mythic made alot of classes grp friendly and i think its just the spec af that is alb only, back then. So you may have to give up on some melee classes for other buffs, but that is part of the game, choosing what you need and what youl go without. And yes some classes may have issues like BD, but that is a bug that needs fixing, and shouldnt be an agruement. GET OFF YOUR ASS and report the bugs, and hope you can make sure they know how importent those features on that class is. Just remember the devs are busy.

I think if a buff is a class ablitiy, like end regen, power regen and so on, also haste, also spec AF, and so on, should also be removed. Since its part of the game to give it to some classes and not others, when it comes to grp vs grp, as my above post shows who gets what. Same goes with charged debuff, but im not sure about those, it depends how much stat debuffs effect an assasins, or other class debuffs effectivienss. And that we still have to find what we want to put on currect charged stat items. Like if we remove stat debuffs from alchemy, and put minor ones , like 30 value onto the necklace of the body to be a str/con debuff, that will make it very unique, since not everyone can easly get it, and it only will affect game play a little. So people will not go nuts to have it and pay tons of money for them. We dont need OP items , deciding how the game play will be .

Well the use of dd charges is a good point, not for the dmg part, but for that some classes are not ment to have ranged intrup, or instent ranged intrupt. Allthough someone who does have an instent dd or dot to intrup will benifit from a ranged dd charge also, giving them 2 intrups. But if that is too unfair, they can allwes change charged dds to 300 range for melee range only.

And if your losing to a ranger 90% of the time , then your not specced good, your to low of a RR, or just not that good. But dont worry, with old ra's they will not have physical defense, and no MoS for movement and with camo down, youl get an easy PA. So dont cry so much, the rangers will be easyer, even if we get buffs and you dont. Read up on strats for your class if you need to, im sure the strats will not be focused around buffing yourself. If so, ignore the advice about your enemys having buffbots/alchmey pots/charges, since that in balance doest require you to have them ether. Hang in there kido

Hedra wrote:I'd still like to know how you will balance it for groups. Alb without haste charge will be awesome...

Don't you have Theurgists in groups?
As far as I know Hibernian groups do not have powerful damageadds in their groups like Albion or Midgard do, due to the spell being in the Enchanter's pet specline. Another point is that nobody, except for Albion, would have spec AF buffs anymore like Mythic intended it at the very beginning in case there would be no more buff charges. It all has it's pros and cons. Nevertheless buffcharges lead the gameplay to a state far away from the original in some situations.

Amadeth wrote:Not every class was designed to kill every other class

I'm really glad to see someone here who recognized that.

Nayru wrote:

Hedra wrote:I'd still like to know how you will balance it for groups. Alb without haste charge will be awesome...

Don't you have Theurgists in groups?

Definitely not in every group, which is my point => setups will be less flexible. We often take a minstrel or another damage dealer instead of theu but it wouldn't be possible anymore.
And if you wanna force us to have theurgists in group, at least fix their rr5 ^^

What that saying should be. Not every class, should be able to solo each other in simular encounter. Example a ranger who is spec for bow, stealth , PF, and melee, could have a very little chance of winning vs a merc who is spec for melee, parry, shield, DW, if the ranger was out of stealth and just ran at him to fight. The merc would have the upper hand, because the ranger didnt use his other feature to balance the fight.

But if a ranger who was speced like that, used his stealth to open the fight from a hill, and got off a few shots, that equaled a decent amount of dmg, then started in combat, that ranger should have a fair and equal fight with the merc. But yet on uthgard with all these buffs, it allows a merc or other classes in the same kinda setup, to just totaly rape someone, within seconds after entering combat, no matter how much they where hit alrdy. Not every enemy, but its not uncommon . And im talking about equal or almost equal RRs.

You have thinked about the possibility that the gameplay design is to balance with charges and buff potions?

I don't think they implemented charges and buff potions to lower the money income (aeh ... Buffbot count) or to make the game imbalanced and lose some more money.

It is just nice bonus content

Not every class was designed to kill every other class

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