Kind of a noob response here I suppose since I'm not going to even pretend to say I know what self buffs do to self-buffing toons and all that, but this is simply a suggestion. Those who really know what is going on feel free to shoot it down.

Why not put a self-buff cap of some sort on the overall value of what buffs you can get? One where the self-buff classes can still benefit from a 2pot buff up if they want, but at an expense of it lowering a percentage off of their other self buffs. That way those who want to run solo with selfbuffs can and it still doesn't completely overpower specifically rangers and to a lesser extent friars and wardens.

Example: If a ranger decides to run with a SC charge, their self buff diminishes slightly because it is "over cap" .

I would have no idea how to put this into place if its possible, but just a suggestion and would need serious tweaking to see what would be fair enough for all players. Maybe even have this effect viper strength or something of that sort so assassins in turn don't become overpowered as a result of the whole thing. The cap itself would be high enough where selfbuff classes can still have their intended advantages of selfbuffs, but if they decide to pot up as well, they aren't just destroying everything in their path.

I say this because currently rangers in particular are just really too strong to outright give them the benefit of new RAs with lack of pots it seems. By diminishing the returns of the self buffs PLUS the 2pots, you bring the rangers back down to a non-godly level, and then they too have to decide if they want to run all their self-buffs as well as pots. Yes I know OMG but selfbuff classes are intended to take advantage of their buffs and that takes away from their use, but at least this may be a stopgap while old RAs are implemented to balance things out a bit more. Plus they would still get an advantage from 2 pots, just not enough that puts them above everyone else. Custom change I know but it would only be temporary and might be worth a shot unless someone comes up with a good reason it would not work.

BobtheSkelly wrote:I say this because currently rangers in particular are just really too strong to outright give them the benefit of new RAs with lack of pots it seems. By diminishing the returns of the self buffs PLUS the 2pots, you bring the rangers back down to a non-godly level, and then they too have to decide if they want to run all their self-buffs as well as pots.

i will never understand why people complain about ranger , some days ago i ate a 800 critshot of a hunter, where shall i create a "nerf hunter thread"
in times where i ran without any barrel or charge it was very hard versus them, but atm i run (as infi) with s/c ; d/q ; 150mhb Charge and Haste-,Dex- and Con-Barrel and it is easy going vs them.
a ranger below rr8-9 is as hard as breaking some necks of newborns :p

RonELuvv wrote:Players who invest the extra time into farming better templates should have an advantage. Please show me an example of DAoC on live that did not utilize this method. Every expansion, its whoever gets the "uber" items first is who owns the RvR war in the short term.

Indeed. One of these expansions is called Trials of Atlantis. You may remember it as the expansion that killed DAoC, in part by creating a massive power imbalance between casual players and hardcore grinders. Sound familiar?

Magicco wrote:a ranger below rr8-9 is as hard as breaking some necks of newborns :p

Gee, could that be because your class possesses the only hard-counter to Rangers, in the form of the most imba RA on the server?

Seyha wrote:Indeed. One of these expansions is called Trials of Atlantis. You may remember it as the expansion that killed DAoC, in part by creating a massive power imbalance between casual players and hardcore grinders. Sound familiar?

well what would be the opposite you desire?
no gap between hardcore and casuals? hm so every char that ding lvl50 gets epic armor, and all other drops will be deleted cause you need time or money to get them xD? No Gap no problems xD

Magicco wrote:i will never understand why people complain about ranger , some days ago i ate a 800 critshot of a hunter, where shall i create a "nerf hunter thread"

You fail to mention that the hunter most likely lost...

Personally I have maybe done 800+ one single time with critshot on a hunter, so that is not common.
What instead is common, is to do 1k+ damage with bow, then start melee, and still die as a hunter vs assassin.

@RonELuvv & Magicco

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You should just ignore them.
They fail to realise that unlike live, Uthgard have a no-buffbot policy.

Not to forget that they are lobbying hard to try to avoid this change because they are what you might call at the pinnacle of the (ab)use of the current system.
): Never running without 8+ buffs, even vs skiltvaktens.
(And Magicco has been abusing viper since rr4.)

@BobtheSkelly

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The idea is not bad, but it will most likely never happen.

It is not because it is impossible to implement. However, it is not easy either.
One would have to change how the current buff-system work.
This change would also mean to make a system that is currently 'live-like', custom, something that will never be heard.


@fjott

i understand you are frustrated, but if you really want to chance something, you should ask Blue to help him with the missing part of mob-damage.
or go on with defense penetration.

uh you cant invest so much time for them. its okay, but than stop playing here a forum fighter :p
and btw how you can know i use viper3 ?

Magicco wrote:no gap between hardcore and casuals?

Maybe limited and reasonnable gap

By the way everything that will reduce the stealther population would be good for the server

Magicco wrote:well what would be the opposite you desire?
no gap between hardcore and casuals? hm so every char that ding lvl50 gets epic armor, and all other drops will be deleted cause you need time or money to get them xD? No Gap no problems xD

The gap in power for all other special drops on this server is quite small. The main advantage for having them is easier templating, which does not necessarily translate to an advantage in RvR. There are some special weapon drops with slow speeds not possible with crafting, but the advantage is miniscule.

DAoC already has a built-in gap between hardcore and casual players: the Realm Rank system. The good thing about this system is that it is dynamic (in that high Realm Rank players can exhaust active abilities, which lowers their effective Realm Rank), it is predictable (I can see your realm rank and make a fairly accurate assessment of your abilities), and it is directly related to your activity in RvR. RR can not be bought with money; you can't get lucky on a raid and win the roll for RR11.

What more of a gap do you need?

I understand and agree with you to a degree Seyha. RR alone provides a very distinct gap as it stands. However, when you say it was ToA that introduced the idea of items making a huge gap between casual and hardcore you are only partially right. ToA did make the gap worse since there was more stuff to farm, but the gap existed long before ToA. There has always been items that make a big difference and that only a select few had access to. Even in the earliest days of DAoC there were items only a few people eithe knew how to obtain or had the time and resources to get it and those items increased their chances to win. I'm not saying its right or its wrong, only that it has always existed on this game in one form or another.

Fjott wrote:

Magicco wrote:i will never understand why people complain about ranger , some days ago i ate a 800 critshot of a hunter, where shall i create a "nerf hunter thread"

You fail to mention that the hunter most likely lost...

Personally I have maybe done 800+ one single time with critshot on a hunter, so that is not common.
What instead is common, is to do 1k+ damage with bow, then start melee, and still die as a hunter vs assassin.


@BobtheSkelly

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The idea is not bad, but it will most likely never happen.

It is not because it is impossible to implement. However, it is not easy either.
One would have to change how the current buff-system work.
This change would also mean to make a system that is currently 'live-like', custom, something that will never be heard.


Okay, depending how easy or hard it was I would understand the value of actually having it implemented. If this would take a considerable amount of time that would instead be dedicated to Old RAs or defense penetration, skip it, but if it takes a lot less time to tweak it may be worth it to give it a shot in the meantime of the big stuff getting implemented. The "live-like" argument is out the door at the moment since this transition period to the older patch leaves things all out of wack anyway, so unless it will very negatively effect game play or take a lot of time, what is wrong with the idea itself? As HulkGris said above about a limited and reasonable gap, this plan allows that idea to be in place.

Seyha wrote:
DAoC already has a built-in gap between hardcore and casual players: the Realm Rank system. The good thing about this system is that it is dynamic (in that high Realm Rank players can exhaust active abilities, which lowers their effective Realm Rank), it is predictable (I can see your realm rank and make a fairly accurate assessment of your abilities), and it is directly related to your activity in RvR. RR can not be bought with money; you can't get lucky on a raid and win the roll for RR11.

What more of a gap do you need?

I think this is how most people (the silent majority) feel, the time that DAOC was the best was the time which did not have any sort of gear grind (TOA) so why create it here when you were specifically trying to avoid it?

IMO all the buff pot / charged item stuff has done is caused people to roll self buff classes or to participate in BG RvR in order to not HAVE to put the time in to get the highest level charge stuff.

So if what this game wants is for more people to play the same classes and to increase BG action then it is doing a great job