15dex /10emp for warden should be the best. Dex is the most important stat as a warden and emp is the second one

Koleriker wrote:15dex /10emp for warden should be the best. Dex is the most important stat as a warden and emp is the second one

Agree with this

Snowalker wrote:Yes, i would argue that you re not supposed to heal people either ..because of too much healing a group already from bards and druids.
I would rather snare/interrupt/pbt all the time.

There is a little chance that you will play a warden in a group which has a second bard. You get one or the other. Bards also rarely heal in 8v8. Yes you should be interrupting and snaring instead of spamming heals but as a pusher with no Det you will be rooted quite often. You will not enjoy healing when you are a huge firby with a 'target me' sign on you, in the frontline surrounded by many interrupters, and casting slow.

Kaziera wrote:Healer dmg Table gives you a pityfull amount of ws for your str. Just dont bother with it

It feels to me that the main reason why Warden has low damage is that they're forced to use 1 handed weapons.

Warden's damage table is the same as stealthers' and Thane's (x18 factor according to the most popular formula), and only slightly lower than other hybrids (x19). Being forced to use 1 handed weapon is a much bigger deal, the damage difference between 1 handed and 2 handed starts at 10% but can go higher than 40% depending on the spec.

Actually the only 1 handed damage dealer is the Reaver, and it relies on style procs.

I agree that you don't need more than 10 in Blades (or maybe 15).

I have put 21 for the reactive stun, can be useful sometimes, especially when playing in small men.

imamizer wrote:

Snowalker wrote:Yes, i would argue that you re not supposed to heal people either ..because of too much healing a group already from bards and druids.
I would rather snare/interrupt/pbt all the time.

There is a little chance that you will play a warden in a group which has a second bard. You get one or the other. Bards also rarely heal in 8v8. Yes you should be interrupting and snaring instead of spamming heals but as a pusher with no Det you will be rooted quite often. You will not enjoy healing when you are a huge firby with a 'target me' sign on you, in the frontline surrounded by many interrupters, and casting slow.

My most successful groups have been x2druid x2bard x1warden x3 BM.

Sylvan warden for best resists and 10str 10con 10dex

49 nurture 33 regrow 21 blades 20 parry

Some excellent posts pro and con while touching on the major roles of a warden in RvR groups.

Main usefulness to 8v8 RvR full-time setup group (vs zerg & vs pug as the differences make a sig difference):

1. Red Resists (49 nurt is needed to get all 3)

2. Red PBT chant (6 sec pulse L45 - range 1250 (have to be close) vs. yellow at L36 (8sec pulse)
...alternate with DA chant (7.5 dps body dmg) range 1500... some argue for speed but it is casted not chant and often impractical esp vs. that extra BT that may stop a melee/pet attack on any nearby

3. Interupts on casters - reason is you more than all support are a scale wearing beefy hp w/ medium shield that can be further in the frontlines taking damage and still surviving.

4. FAST FAST healing - here's the sticky part being argued above. Contrary to conjecture you have plenty of power to get off 7-8 major heals or 15+ minor heals in 1 min. 99qual temped L50 warden with +0emp start stat will have >520power pool easily.. In most situations though you are going to need your casting speed as close to 1.5 as possible...

baseline group apoth - 3.0 sec cast 93hp cost 17pp OR
baseline minor single apoth - 2.3 sec cast 119hp 25pp OR
baseline single heal - 2.8 sec cast 231hp cost 42pp (almost never used)
REGROWTH L42 spec single heal - 3.2 sec cast 387hp cost 57pp
vs REGROWTH L33 spec single heal - 3.2 sec cast 307hp cost 48pp

and the above between the lines spells out the rub w/ paper daoc. It may not seem like much but 2.3sec vs 3.2sec of cast time in the thick of a battle is HUGE!!! the likelihood of you being interupted is vastly different here vs. the usefulness of the heals. Sure if you are in the lucky spot of a full tank group then yes the full power of your heal will land but your druids/bard may heal that tank.. the tank may be at 85% and the extra heal power is wasted... so you find that in those crucial start/mid fight speed of cast and, if lucky, a group heal or fast single heal landing vs getting interupted prooves more utility to the 8v8 RvR setup. This also is the underlying reason WHY wardens go with Celt for the +dex (our rising stat on leveling is empathy /eyeroll - power pool so we're gimped on dex at L50).

IMHO it is a tossup 49nurt, 33regrow, or 49 nurt, 42 regrow ... we get our side snare 60% slowing for 14secs at blades 10 so both are doable while still retaining this (just about only style you should try to land to help group out since odds are you'll be distracted focusing on the other 4-5 things you need to do situationally and/or another nearby caster you need to get on to interupt b/c someone / tank gets on your target. % chance of landing before interupt has me using group apoth/single fast heal/group bt 4-5x more than ST heal but that's also cuz you casters are so damn squishy warden has to think 2secs ahead of what your dmg is going to be (x7 people to watch) and you die in 4-5 secs vs good train!

The bonus 10% fatigue redux at Regrow L41 is really not that much more useful vs L32 Regrow fatigue redux which leaves the single heal spell as only major reason to spec up to L42 (you'll rarely burn through enuf endur to need that much redux cept in PvE)

sorry for WOT:
summary:
OP: 45nurt,33regrow,34blades - not worth it since rvr viability is very very rare on a class that is already marginally "needed" without Red Resists

Garlak: 49 nurt,43 regrow (why the 43 vs. a couple more blades??... might land some of those interrupts more often)..

Snowalker: the non-dex rising cast stat is reason why celt, the 15dex... L42 vs L33 tossup reviewed above. There's plenty of mana pool once RR2+ w/ mcl and/or serenity and realizing the varied situational roles you are constantly playing midfight. Firby for solo warden 1v1 rvr is awesome.. no question but not OP's end game RvR 8v8.---aside... Aryle wasn't being elitist just trying to help and keep it brief... WOT above is when "it" isn't brief.

Aryl: spot on ... DA generally only once group has things under control (landed perfect mez... end of fight ... etc) otherwise pbt tends to help out backline casters w/ pets on em etc) - wish the L21 off-block 4sec stun was more useful or was positional etc...

Kaziera: spot on... our dmg table 1h w/ how little we can spec in it sux balz - Tombo the OF Warden TL did testing on OF to proove - prob lost on Nature's Wall board somewhere archived w/ parsed logs.

Misc advice: add AF-10 charged dagger in that unused 2nd weap slot... keep it up all times - 4gp per, keep 10-20 pow pots (good 1-2hour group run w/o deaths will burn through it all), +nurt not needed in template (L49 nurt spec) - 20 bases cap etc, on buffstop: 3 r's, group bt, celerity, end redux, health regen ... warden most likely to survive start/mid fight so you should do all bases and remainder on pets, on res midcombat - pbt, pow pot, mcl, dex self, heal others and get base dex on all / str on tanks... / remainder bases / heals etc. give 2min/1min warning to GL on timers drop so he can find safe loc to rebuff, rinse repeat and enjoy the class.

Running the full regrowth 13 blades spec atm. Dont underestimate the power of the highest heal. Although slow it heals for 500+. Expecially in a tankgrp vs tankgrp its really good. 10 sidesnare blade is more then enough for the peeling aspect