Juri wrote:That's not true! I just rolled an animist on a new pendragon account and found the NPC right inside TNN. Check the capital areas!

Could you tell me the NPC name and where they are so I can complete my testing on live. I could not find them anywhere.
EDIT, nevermind, found her. Will update with live testing soon.

Here are the results of my testing on Uthgard:
Methods:
Level 50 Elf mentalist. Base light skill level: 48
All monsters were at full health.
Each monster was charmed for 10 minutes. The resist rate was calculated by dividing the total resists over the ten minutes by a 5s pulse interval (120 total pulses over 10 minutes), value is a %

Results:
'Charmable' means the monster did not break the charm during the 10 minute interval. If a monster ever broke once during the 10 minutes, it broke multiple times. NO basically means the monster cannot be used. Total light is the sum of the base 48 light spec and any + to light skill. Charm is the charm spell used, i.e. Charm1 = lvl4 - humanoid, Charm2 = lvl10 humanoid + animal, ect.
The 'Formula' column is the value from ((CharLvl)*2+(TotalLight))/3, rounded down suggested as the correct formula for monster charm level.
'UthFormula' is the value from (((CharLvl)*2+(TotalLight)-1)/3 -1) rounded down, which appears to be the formula currently employed on Uthgard

Data presented in the following order
Total Light Charm Total Resists Resist Rate Charmable 'Formula' 'UthFormula'

Siabra Venerator, humanoid, level 46
60 Charm1 3 3% YES 53 52
56 Charm1 4 3% YES 52 50
50 Charm1 2 2% YES 50 48

Siabra Waterwalker, humanoid, level 49
60 Charm1 3 3% YES 53 52
51 Charm1 2 2% YES 50 49
50 Charm1 47 39% NO 50 48
50 Charm6 52 43% NO 50 48
49 Charm1 57 48% NO 49 48

Siabra Waterwalker, humanoid, level 50
60 Charm1 1 1% YES 53 52
54 Charm1 5 4% YES 51 50
53 Charm1 47 39% NO 51 49
50 Charm1 76 63% NO 50 48

Black Wraith, undead, level 52
60 Charm5 5 4% YES 53 52
59 Charm5 48 40% NO 53 51
54 Charm5 82 68% NO 51 50

Discussion:
It appears that IF TRUNC(((CharLvl)*2+(TotalLight)-1)/3 -1) >= MonsterLvl then you can charm the monster on Uthgard. The level of the charm spell makes no difference on the outcome of the charm. While there do appear to be variations in the resist rate when the above inequality does not hold true, there is a definite 'preak point' once you exceed the proposed formula. Once you do not pass that breakpoint, monsters cannot be reliably held to the point where basically the resist rate doesn't matter at all.

What that this means as of right now on Uthgard, if you're a level 50 mentalist, the level of monster you can charm obeys the following break points:

Total Light , Monster Level
45 47
48 48
51 49
54 50
57 51
60 52
63 53
66 54
69 55

Breakpoints for the formula being proposed on the forums, TRUNC(((CharLvl)*2+(TotalLight))/3):
Total Light Monster Level
45 48
47 49
50 50
53 51
56 52
59 53
62 54
65 55
68 56

The differences between these two formulas results in a monster charm level at least 1 level lower, 2 levels when the total light spec is 1 lower than the Uthgard break point, than what people seem to expect to be the case.

Once I can get set up on Pendragon I'll see if I can figure out what it's like on live, though that still doesn't tell us how it was in 1.65.

Here are the NPCs! http://i67.tinypic.com/2e20ydl.jpg

I was able to get a character set up on live, below are the results.

Method:
Level 50 mentalist RR 5L5, 48 base light
All monsters full health.
Each monster was charmed for 11 minutes. Resist rate calculated the same way as before but using the adjusted time.

Note: Charm lasts 11 seconds instead of 10 with my set up, Pom last 11 instead of 10 (hense the difference in time). Spell still pulses at 5 seconds though, so resist calculations should be the same.

Results:
Same table layout as before. Though here it is more clear that 'Charmable' relates directly to the resist rates, with monsters at 15 or 25% resist rate falling out of charm only a handful of times during the 11 minute period.

Total Light Charm Total Resists Resist Rate Charmable 'Formula' 'UthFormula

Siabra Waterwalker, humanoid, level 49
52 Charm 1 3 3% YES 50 49

Siabra Guardian, humanoid, level 56
63 Charm 1 34 26% NO 54 53
60 Charm 1 38 29% NO 53 52
58 Charm 1 53 40% NO 52 51

Black Wraith, undead, level 53
60 Charm5 6 5% YES 53 52
58 Charm5 19 14% NO 52 51
57 Charm5 19 14% NO 52 51
55 Charm5 33 25% NO 51 50
54 Charm5 31 23% NO 51 50
52 Charm5 43 33% NO 50 49

Discussion:
The formula on live appears to obey TRUNC(((CharLvl)*2+(TotalLight))/3) with a base resist rate of 5%. If you are charming a monster that is equal to, or above that level, the base resist rate of 5% applies. For the first two level differences of 1 between the live formula and the monster, an additional 10% resist rate applies. At a difference of 3 an additional 30% is applied, though insufficient data exists to solidify this claim.

Data isn't conclusive from the Uthgard data set, though it appears the formula is TRUNC(((CharLvl)*2+(TotalLight)-4)/3), with a base resist rate of 5%. For the first level difference of 1 between the Uthgard formula and the monster, an additional 35% resist rate is applied, to a total of 40%. The next level difference adds 25% to a total of 65% resists.

Conclusion:
Uthgard and live have different formulas that dictate the level of monster that can be charmed.
Uthgard:
Let CharmLvl = TRUNC(((CharLvl)*2+(TotalLight)-4)/3)
Live:
Let CharmLvl = TRUNC(((CharLvl)*2+(TotalLight))/3)

The blow resist formulas are estimates based on the available data. Larger sample sizes are required for better parameter estimates.
For both servers, if CharmLvl >= MonsterLvl then ResistRate = 5%
On live:
If CharmLvl < MonsterLvl then ResistRate = 5% + 10%*(MonsterLvl - CharmLvl)

On Uthgard:
If CharmLvl < MonsterLvl then ResistRate = 5% + 40% + 20%*(MonsterLvl - (CharmLvl+1))

I cannot comment on whether or not the current implementation of mentalist charms on Uthgard is the correct form used in 1.65, only that is currently different than it is on Live.

Does the L4 charm work at all?

My wife's menty is L42 with like 8+3 light. We walked from CF to MagMell last night, trying to charm every humanoid we saw, and everything just resisted 100%. (resist, not "you can't charm that" for wrong creature type). Not even L10ish curmie Trappers and Harvesters behind MM, despite spamming charm a dozen times.

She should be able to at least hit a L30.

They just got dragons back up. I hope this is one of the next issues fixed. Im sure it will be.

I dont have any issues with mentalist charm except for some pack of the same exact mobs where i can charm some of them and not the others (ex priestess where i have sometimes to kill some templars or a priestess to hopefully have a charmable priestess which pops)

Envoyé de mon SM-G920F en utilisant Tapatalk

Having 58 composite light and being unable to charm a lvl 51 mob is definitely a problem and I believe the debts are working on it. It was just shown above that as mobs are 50+ they become nearly impossible to hold which is not how it used to be.
The devs did a good job at fixing the priestess bug I reported. They have a lot to work on and will get to it eventually.


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I ve, seen several minstrels and Mentas with red pets in rvr. Just get a better macro.

They fixed minstrel charm. Ment still broken af


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They fixed minstrel charm. Ment still broken af


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pweet wrote:I ve, seen several minstrels and Mentas with red pets in rvr. Just get a better macro.

Macro isn't needed,
I personally charm red pet almost all the time since RR2.
Just need a decent qbind setup and be used to multi-task for a good spam.

They fixed minstrel charm. Ment still broken af

No they actually didn't yet.
However, the 1911 bug (release button broken) has been modified to : Resolved. (didn't test it yet, but superb news )

The 2489 bug is still fully bugged same as mentalist, with a hardcap at lvl 60 pet for minstrel = 100% resist even with 100.000 pulses + different troubles of minst level / pet level cap.

I fooled around with a light mentalist circa 2003, and I remember charm being fairly unusable, at least while leveling with maxed out light. The issue seemed to be that there was little chance of correcting a resist, so even if you could technically charm a mob and have it work, a single bad string of resists would cause it to attack you and, as a caster, that was often fatal.

I also played a minstrel extensively circa 2004, up to a decent RR, and I made ample use of charm. I even learned how to charm while stealthing, so I was pretty familiar with the mechanic. What made the minstrel charm so much more effective for me was that resists were somewhat of a non-issue unless I was trying to charm a very high level mob. The charm chant didn't cost mana as the charm spell did with the mentalist and if a mob resisted the charm, I could just turn the chant off and back on real quick to reset the pulses. Even if I accidentally lost the pet and it attacked me, it wasn't really an issue because the chant was instant cast and I was wearing chain and didn't need to cast spells to survive.

These differences are probably why I never ever saw a mentalist with a pet back in the day, not on MLF, not on Bors, and not on Kay. On Bors, there was a very well known, very high RR light mentalist who never RvR'd with a pet, regardless of the fact that he probably should've been able to with little issue, and it's probably because the mentalist charm has always been unreliable, difficult to maintain, and particularly damning when lost at key moments. That doesn't mean that Uthgard has it right, of course, but it seems like most people here are jumping to conclusions or have foggy memories of just how this all worked.

Qbinds and macros do nothing for mentalist charm... It is a casted ability. The testing showed the resist rate for a mob once they hit level 50 is higher than it should be.


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I hope the Devs fix this issue soon. I actually want to play a light menta as my RvR main.

still cant even hold any yellow...