Please put away your battle criers

Elije
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Postby Elije » Feb 25, 2018 20:17

I've getting tired of seeing these in newbie PUGs. If you want to gimp yourself by speccing Verdant, that's your business, but its controlled pet is worse than useless in a group. At least put a couple points in Creeping for the cheap snare controlled, which at least has a chance to be useful.

I don't have the live experience to compare, and maybe they work better on live, but their taunts aren't strong enough to actually draw a MOB off of a player, and they can do no damage if outside of melee range. Arboreal controlled pets actually generate the most aggro, and can pull off a MOB if A) the pet is closer to the MOB than you are and B) either you only have the MOB's attention, not aggro (use a non-damage spell such as the CON debuff) or the pet's spell is not resisted and you used only bomber spells to damage it, not the life drain. (Never use the life drain.)

Even if the Arboreal controlled doesn't draw actual aggro, *it is still doing damage*. The Verdant controlled is only leeching your power and group XP to have it out.

I'm getting tired of more mushrooms than a damp basement, too... FnFs are rarely good strategy. So if you've gimped yourself into the Verdant line, your best bets are baseline Creeping bombers or spamming the bladeturn AOE.

What you DO is pop your Arboreal controlled and spam Arboreal nukes. You'll rarely draw heat onto yourself, and you have the most damage output. FnFs will just pile your aggro, and now everyone's healing you and trying in vain to pull aggro off of you, and you're just gonna die. If you're told to pop FnFs, tell them that. If they start whining, /disband and get the hell out of there. It's not like you can't solo insanely well. FnFs are for solo farming seas of greens and other situations where you can manage all of the aggro they draw.






.... Oh! And keep your damn tanglers in your pocket, too! Especially in that damp basement... no MOB is gonna go without being hit and having the root broken. Tanglers are only useful well outside of the combat zone if the whole group needs to retreat... and are smart enough to not keep hitting things... and few enough things follow you that your tanglers can randomly fire and get all of them quickly enough... and aren't resisted... and are refreshed every 2 minutes with power you're willing to use instead of bombing. So in other words, NEVER.

trademark
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Postby trademark » Feb 26, 2018 21:09

I believe the xp cut of pets is determined by their impact on the fight, i.e., healing and damage. So if a shroom is just taunting, it will take no xp (But also won't do much, to your point).

As a fun story, I was in a melee group at River Finns a few days ago group that was spamming L5 shrooms for some reason and while we didn't die (yay melee groups, very durable), we definitely had some pulls where we were fighting 3 or 4 mobs at a time because the FnF's both broke mezzes on Finns and pulled a pooka or worm.

Put another way, agreed, don't use your FnF's in groups. It's just bad.
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Shakes
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Postby Shakes » Feb 27, 2018 01:00

Shrooms do not attack mezzed targets.

Elije
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Postby Elije » Feb 27, 2018 01:47

Shakes wrote:Shrooms do not attack mezzed targets.


Sounds like something worth testing. Would that apply to roots as well? If so, then my whining about tanglers in that rant would be ill-founded.

trademark
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Postby trademark » Feb 27, 2018 04:56

Shakes wrote:Shrooms do not attack mezzed targets.


I've heard this before and, as someone who has a 50 Ani and Bard, I believe this to be an urban myth at this point.

Given that I guarantee shrooms can break mezzes, what people may be referring to (I'm guessing) when they say this is that a shroom placed on the ground will not initiate a cast on a mezzed target. However, given that I promise they have broken mezzes before, there may be an assumption made that shrooms do continue casts if the target is mezzed after a Shroom's cast has been started.

That logic does not apply to roots, in my observed experience. In the previously cited example, roots worked much better as CC in that situation because they won't break on resisted spells, only successful casts, and basically none of them were successful if only a few shrooms were hitting the mob. And they were definitely resisting when rooted.
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MT-Pear
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Postby MT-Pear » Feb 27, 2018 10:25

Shrooms initial no attack on rooted/mezzed target.
But if the target gets the effect in the meantime the shroom is casting, the shroom won't stop and hit the target.

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Tree
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Postby Tree » Feb 28, 2018 09:59

Also shrooms take away XP and RP from their owner, not the group. Tzzz people know so little about animists and shrooms in particular. Gotta write a guide someday 8)
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Postby GreenP » Feb 28, 2018 12:29

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Elije
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Postby Elije » Feb 28, 2018 12:57

MT-Pear wrote:Shrooms initial no attack on rooted/mezzed target.
But if the target gets the effect in the meantime the shroom is casting, the shroom won't stop and hit the target.


Well, it sounds like the tangler portion of my rant was off on dynamics, but the net effect is pretty much the same. Some newb spams a truffle farm and a tangler or two in the middle of them. The FnFs might not initiate an attack on a rooted target, but odds are pretty good that at least one of them had already started to cast before the root landed.

In my own personal experience with root bombers in particular, they never work even alone with FnFs around, or a controlled who's on aggro mode. Perhaps I never hit the right timing or had enough other MOBs around to allow my target to stay rooted, so I never got to observe this fine distinction.



To the primary rant -- if anyone has a good reason to pop a verdant controlled in a group, barring a severely coordinated strategy to push the fight in that direction, then I'm curious to hear that as well.

Elije
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Postby Elije » Mar 03, 2018 22:00

MT-Pear wrote:Shrooms initial no attack on rooted/mezzed target.
But if the target gets the effect in the meantime the shroom is casting, the shroom won't stop and hit the target.


I can't speak to mez, but this is demonstrably untrue for roots. I just tested... root first, drop FnF, watch it attack your rooted target. I would suspect mez as well, but I don't have my own to test with.

MadDog845
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Postby MadDog845 » Mar 07, 2018 16:19

Shrooms leech XP from the owner not the group so why are you crying ?

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Postby Skullbones » Mar 09, 2018 20:32

Haven't tested this extensively so this may be wrong, but here is what I believe at the moment.

Tanglers seem to straight up attack mezzed targets

Level 5-43 fnf shrooms don't as long as you set them up after the mez

Level 5-43 fnf shrooms will hit if the target is mezzed after they are alive and in range of the mez because the shrooms are mid cast when the target is mezzed. They don't stop their cast so they end up hitting the target.

The lvl 50 ones don't break mez unless they cast at the exact time that the person is mezzed. This is because the lvl 50 shrooms basically sit doing nothing, then they instant fire. And like the 5-43s, they won't attack if the target is already mezzed.

Shrooms attack rooted targets.

And Verdant sucks

Shrooms other than the main arb/creeping pet, dmg fnf, and vent shrooms are all terrible and/or broken.


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