Th0masdk is/was a troll.

He was not 100% wrong in his statement but telling that no LA wasn't affecting the CS line styles is wrong.

With no LA at all, you get a penalty on your base damage when you dual wield. This penalty affects your main hand and your left axe base damage. You get this penalty only when you dual wield so it doesn't affect 2h or 1h+shield setups. (but as you can guess, going 2H or shield, you miss out a lot on.. let's say poisons, or slowwww swing speed)

Each point you put into LA reduces this penalty on base damage when you dual wield.

Now there's something else to consider: the style damage, which adds up to your base damage when you swing and land a style, and is calculated according to the growth rate of the style and the amount of points your specced into the style line.

Knowing that the CS styles have bigger growth rates compared to the other lines.

Between 5-spec, critblade or shadowzerk, there is not really any spec that is "better" than another one. Things even out, what you'd loose somewhere, you'd gain otherwise and it really depends on what you're fighting against.

Respec stones aren't too expensive at the moment, it's not the worst time to try and experiment.

http://talsyra.tripod.com/daocmechanics ... anics.html

ok thanks

I will try my self and see the diff anywya

Also

Dont want to re-launch the debate but I am not entirely sure about doing less damages with 0 in LA.

I was 39 LA / 39 CS / 34 Sword then I respect 39 CS / 36 Sword / 0 LA and I am doing a bit more damage!

I am only using CS style in both case, except of course the evade/stun style.

As I said I will try 50 sword spe to see how that effect my dps.

Keep you update but wont be now as I still need few lvl to reach 50'

darksousou_ wrote:He said 50 Sword / 39 CS / 0 LA will increased massively DPS.

Yup, big damage incrase if you use 2hand weapon + sword styles only.

If you don't use the styles of your main weapon spec (axe or sword styles), every point above 51 comp weapon spec is wasted.
Most ppl don't know about special spec lines like Shield, Critcial Strike, Dual wield, Left Axe and Celtic Dual having their own hidden weaponskill.
The weaponskill in your attributes window is just showing your main weaponskill.

If you plan to only use the styles of your special spec line, there would be just one reason to spec into your mainhand weapon (axe or sword) and thats the damage variance that starts at 25-125%(unspeced weapon) and will cap at 100-150% (51 comp weapon spec).

About defense penetration, i am not sure if they implemented it correctly on Uthgard, but if you use CS styles, the skill points in CS, the +CS item bonus and your Strength stat should determine your chance to penetrate enemy defense. If you use LA styles it should be the LA skill, if you use Axe styles it should be your Axe skill.

I personaly think 34 CS would be too low, like 90%+ of the styles you perform are CS styles, i also would not play a Warrior or Skald with 34 Hammer spec .
With 34 CS you will have lower weaponskill and also lower chance to penetrate enemy defense compared to a 44 CS spec.
A lower LA spec results in lower base damage bonus while wielding two weapons, but if you compare 39 LA to 28 LA, it is a loss of 3.74% base damage in total plus you have to pass on the evade stun.

You could also try a Soulblade spec if you want to deal the max possible melee damage, but you will lack high poison damage and the last debuff, also low level posions will resist more often.

44 CS, 39 LA, 36 Axe, 35 Stealth and 22 Env at rr5 if you want to try a Soulblade.

Like patouch said, in the end it is a trade, you can't have everything so go and try what fits best in your case.

ok so basically with 50Sword my 2hand PA will be huge, but the switch to dual will get lack of DPS.

Many critblade are doing a 44 CS/SWORD template, so there is a waste of point into sword basically.

anyone think differently haha.

Basically the real question is how you want to play.

I think SB can't forgot poison (debuff+dot) is too important.

So the question is: do we want evade stun or maximise PA.

let's say I am doing 50sword.

The best combo will be PA - STUN - FOLLOWING - go in the back & Ragnarok, then switch to dual.

Obv, In a perfect world

EDIT:

Never mind I wont get the time haha

darksousou_ wrote:ok so basically with 50Sword my 2hand PA will be huge, but the switch to dual will get lack of DPS.

Your 2hand PA with 50 sword + 15 skills (items+RR5) and 39 CS will deal the same damage as 36 sword +15 skill (items+RR) and 39 CS spec... there will be no difference in damage while using CS styles.

darksousou_ wrote:The best combo will be PA - STUN - FOLLOWING - go in the back & Ragnarok, then switch to dual.

No point in specing 50 Sword to get your hands on Ragnarok, the style got 0.85 GR while Garrote is at 0.75 and Achilles Heel at 1.05 GR. Thats an average GR of 0.9, so even anytime style spam is above Ragnarok damage. Also Pincer the level 8 CS side-style is with 0.9GR above Ragnarok damage.

ok thanks Moe,

So basically the best will be to 50 CS if we want to maximise DPS?

Yep if you want to incrase your damage with CS styles, you need to go higher with your CS spec, Sword/Axe above 51 comp spec won't incrase it. But as you can read in my first post on page 1, im not a fan of 2hand Critblades. I actually would never use a 2hand weapon, so 50 CS is no option. If you want to wield 2 weapons you also need to incrase your base damage with LA and those points will be missing with 50 CS.

darksousou_ wrote:last question :p

I read (on this forum) based on the infamous Th0masdk:

He said 50 Sword / 39 CS / 0 LA will increased massively DPS.

Anyone tested?

I think that will cost me a lot in respe haha

Shadowtrooper and I have tested this. I was 44cs and 50 axe and only using a shield and mainhand axe. The dps was not better at all it was a little bit lower in damage than your standard 39la 34cs spec but you were only using 1 weapon so only 1 chance for a proc. It was fun but you are 100% gimping yourself by going 0 left axe. Shadowtrooper was 50 cs and I was 44cs there isn't a big difference between pa and garrote damage with that. Left axe is a must for shadowblades if you want the best dps possible

darksousou_ wrote:ok thanks Moe,

So basically the best will be to 50 CS if we want to maximise DPS?

NO! Ive actually tried the 0 left 50 axe spec and using a shield for a month, so listen to me! DO NOT GO 50CS AND 0 LEFT AXE. Your dps will suck. However it is extremely fun and you are giving yourself a challenge plus people get confused when they see the shield. Your dps is not better in any way. CS styles do a tiny tiny bit more damage with 50cs over 44cs so dont go 50cs its a waste of points. Even when using weapon styles at 0 la and 50 cs they dont do more damage than a 39la 34cs sb. Trust me I even made a template with 0 la full mp just to f around and try it. There is only two viable specs for shadowblade. 1. The 34cs 39la spec 2. 44cs, comp weapon, comp stealth, comp envenom(you dont have to get lifebane but you do have to go atleast 47 envenom to get the best debuff), rest in the left axe. Again a 44cs sb who uses left axe will outdamage a 50cs 0 la sb

So playing with the character builder, I came up with this (if I'm interpreting everything right here)

39 stealth
36 poison
21 axe
36 LA
44 CS

That is with auto training stealth for the extra 77 points. I'd likely be using only crit styles as well.

it won't be long to reach 3L so get started with a +13 base or you'll have to respec within a week or two.

For a critblade so:
44 CS (PA/CD/SS and a chain of three after evade, good luck for landing them all. Lots of bleeding though)
37 stealth (comp 50)
37 axe (comp 50 to reduce variance)
34 poison (47 comp for last s/c debuff)
25 LA

You can live with 49 comp stealth and a bit less of poison and weap until your reach 3L


A sub-5L 5-spec would be

34 CS (PA/CD)
37 stealth
37 axe
39 LA (stun on evade chain)
32 poison

And then you work your way up with poison, reaching lifebane at 5L.

Keep your weapon spec to composite 50 so that you keep steady damage output and don't suffer too much from damage variance and sheer luck.

Those two specs would have about the same damage output using cs styles:
-more CS less LA = higher style damage over more penalized base damage.
-less CS more LA = lower style damage over less penalized base damage.

For having played both of those specs, i'd stick to 5-specs no matter what. The stun on evade chain is just too good and will save your ass in the many situations where you won't be able to land your PA chain. Stealth war being one of those case where it's hard to land an opener.

so u dont need 51 composite weapon?

Well the effect of your weapn spec works this way:

There is a break point at 2/3 of your level

An unspecced weapon gives 25% to 125% of its base damage.

The lower end of the damage output variance increases as your weapon spec/character level ratio increases. Thus, the closer your weapon specialization level is to your character level, the higher minimum damage you will do.

With a weapon spec at 2/3 of your level: your damage output variance is 75 to 125% of your maximum
Beyond 2/3 of your level, your upper limit starts to also increase along with your lower limit of damage variance, until at weapon specialization of 100% of your level, your damage output is between 100% and 150% of your base damage

Now it raises the question of 5L wharacters using MP weapons.
At this RR, MP weaps aren't clamped to 16.2dps anymore, they reach their true 16.5 dps indicated value. (16.3 for 99% weapons)

Does the variance calculation considers this as a level 51? In that case yeah speccing 51 composite weapon would make sense to minimize a wee bit more your base damage variance.

I have no idea how this is coded on Uth2 as those information are based on old live studies, so correct me if I'm wrong.