best axe/sword weapons (which spec to take)

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th0ms
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Postby th0ms » May 20, 2016 15:17

drastic wrote:
th0ms wrote:Rofl ... Are you serious @Drastic? .. Why you think majority in classic, sb's rolled critblades?... I give you the standard build for classic, and you ask me if i troll ... I'll delete my post now, and you can find your answers elsewhere :wink:

Btw.. The LA penalty had nothing to do with the CS spec, and the styles in CS wasn't affected by the LA penalty.. If i'm correct, it was not until later patches(toa), where all sb's was forced to spec LA, cause the penalty was implemented, due to much Infil/NS QQ..

Hamstring chain and Garote was the bread and butter skills for sb's back then..



Um OK... yes, I'm aware of Critblade history... but all that aside, WTF is with the claim that Dodger is OP on Shadowblabes??? Infils and NS get it too...??


Rofl .. Dodger was op in general... I just pointed out that it was the most important RA to get for sb's, since he was asking for sb advice... Little clueless pettyfogger :P

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Hitori
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Postby Hitori » May 20, 2016 17:55

drastic wrote:
Hitori wrote:
Thyrin wrote:I think I'll go for a Qadeshian Iceblade with cleaver and skip Left Axe.

^
better u us small shield, ur left axe will do bleeding dmg... :rolleyes:

my favorite specc is with AT and Staff: 50cs, 39 poison, 50 stealth, now u can play a hidden crit monk with poison.


What tha...

This thread has been hijacked by trolling Nightshades :(


that was unhappily no joke, after i reached lv 50 with my sb (was first toon), my guild was trolling and told me, i need to specc 50 stealth/cs, 39 poison... because the 1.62 l.axe nerf and crush dmg to Leather -.-
last but no least im running a couple of days with staff across emain and lose any fights, after few days they told me they kidding me and spend a respeccstone. ;)

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drastic
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Postby drastic » May 21, 2016 02:47

Hitori wrote:that was unhappily no joke, after i reached lv 50 with my sb (was first toon), my guild was trolling and told me, i need to specc 50 stealth/cs, 39 poison... because the 1.62 l.axe nerf and crush dmg to Leather -.-
last but no least im running a couple of days with staff across emain and lose any fights, after few days they told me they kidding me and spend a respeccstone. ;)


LOL straight up Punk'd... poor kid :twisted:
- Gabe

Alb/Kay, Mordred, Gareth
(Mordred for life son!)

Bcopeland
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Postby Bcopeland » Nov 11, 2016 18:07

Sb since release on live. One is r12L2, the other is 10Lx.

EDIT: to clarify what I mean by "comp." This means composite, and you should be adding in your spec plus the +skill you have to equal the true number. So if I have 35 stealth and +15, I am "comp 50" in stealth.



First lets talk about a pure critblade with 0LA skill.

-50CS, comp 50 stealth, comp 50 sword or axe, and the rest poison. This is what is known as a critblade. With this spec you will never (or rarely just to apply the extra poison) be dual wielding. Your 2h dmg is only based off of the 50cs spec (since you will only be using the CS styles) and the growth rates are pure and maxed as long as you are 50 comp (weapon spec +skills) axe or sword and 50CS. This is because there is no dual wield penalty. If you intend on using a sword or axe style then the growth rates on said style would start to diminish since sword and axe both have far smaller growth rates, and you are also basing dmg off of spec which is only comp 50 instead of lets say 50+12 or whatever. If you were to just use sword or axe styles then it would be better to spec 50 in that weapon instead, but lets face it the growth rates on CS styles are the highest in the game so why would you do that. You do not want to be dual wielding in this spec and will take a MASSIVE penalty to main and offhand dmg if you are.

Next lets look at a pure SZ (shadowzerk) with very high if not maxed LA skill.

-50LA, Lower than comp 50 axe or sword, comp 50 stealth, comp 50 poison (this is where you get higher miss rates due to being sub 50 with your axe or sword spec and can be frustrating at low rr's).
-44LA, comp 50 weapon, comp 50 stealth, comp 50 poison (probably the safest of the specs to start, and most reliable with lower miss rates).

Here is where the penalty for LA comes into play. I don't know the exact numbers off hand, but it is not a pure 50% dmg penalty (I think it starts at around 50 or 33%% and goes down depending on LA skill/comp level) and I'll explain how it works. First your offhand and your mainhand are both penalized (base damage and style) by the comp level of your LA skill. To get the most out of both hands that will swing 100% of the time (unlike the NS and Inf line) you need to be 50LA specced and then add in bonuses. At low rr you could be 50+11 or 50+14 or whatever depending on your RR. How it works is that the higher your LA spec is the more base dmg both weapons will do. If you only use LA styles you will do more damage on that style dmg (and base of course) with higher LA skill level. So lets say you swing unstyled with 0LA. You will do XXX dmg with both hands and take a base penalty of 33% to 50% penalty on both hands (plz don't quote me on numbers) on each hands dmg. If you then up your LA skill you will take less of a penalty on each hand. The higher you go up in LA the less the penalty gets. This is why a very high rr sb (like 12L2 in my case) are an absolute terror and really do outperform their counterparts since the penalty diminishes and they still swing with both hands every round (this doesn't start to come into play until rr9+ trust me). Now when you swing styled its just like anything else melee related in the game. If you use LA styles you get more style dmg based on spec with the side effect of having less of a penalty on each hand the higher your LA skill is. I know its a bit confusing, but just wait it gets worse later.

Ok buckle in its about to get a bit more confusing here...

So here is another fairly popular spec at lower and mid RRs.

21CS, comp 50 weapon, 39LA, comp 50 poison, comp 50 stealth.

Now depending on how low of an RR you are this spec is still stretching your spec points and you may not be able to be 50 poison with this spec. This is where auto training really helps you (as with any low rr sneak).

The reason for this spec is to still have your PA that breaks bubbles and does very decent dmg. Some choose to PA with a 2h since it has a high growth rate and high dmg and they want to get the most off of that initial hit. This spec is great for destroying casters to be honest, but we can get into that with another post. How this spec is intended is that you get a great opener even at 21cs, you get the 2part off evade stun in LA, respectable LA style dmg and only a moderate penalty in style and base damage on both hands when dual wielding. Everything is debatable of course and to each their own on how well this performs. This is still a sub par spec against anything but casters since you don't have your 2part CS stun follow up (creeping death) to lock a target down for that 7s. If you are caster hunting you can use this spec quite well since if you PA a caster you rarely need the CD 7s stun follow up to finish them off. You also get the chance to fight back if another sneak attacks you since you have your 2part off evade stun in your kit. The good part also about this spec is that you get to use poisons near max if not max depending on what your RR and spec afford you. This spec you should ONLY be using the PA style in the cs line and a very rare garrote to snare someone. If you are using primarily CS styles in this line you're just gimping yourself for no reason and should just spec differently.

Another spec is to use the 34CS, 34 or 39LA, sub comp 50 weapon spec, comp 50 stealth, the rest poison (which likely is sub comp 50 since you're likely still low rr).

Pros about this spec is you get that 7s followup stun to your PA. If your 39LA you get that 2 part evade stun, respectable LA dmg with a moderate penalty, and dual wielding for 2 poisons. The drawbacks to this spec is again you're not maxed LA so you truly are taking a bigger penalty with any LA styles and base damage, and YOU ARE ALSO TAKING A PENALTY ON DUAL WIELDING WHEN YOU ARE USING YOUR CS STYLES. Yes read that very very carefully. You will still take a dual wield penalty even when using your CS styles if you are dual wielding. The CS growth rates are only based on your CS spec and weapon spec up to comp 50. If your CS spec is 34 you still do respectable growth rate dmg and if your weapon spec is comp 50 your dmg will see no penalty to that CS style. The problem however is that you will still see base dmg penalties on both mainhand and offhand dmg based on your LA spec. This is why its a bit confusing overall and the SB spec has given so many people problems over the years if they do not fully understand how base and style dmg works and how the CS line, weapon spec line, and the LA line work in conjunction. You truly need all 3 if your going to spec higher in the CS line and want to retain the ability to dual wield without a massive penalty to dmg because of a low LA skill. Confusing I know...

So something to think about when going to spec.

Using only a 2h? go Pure CS, comp 50 weapon, comp 50 stealth, comp 50 poison. Easy and nothing to think about. Your a 2 handed monster that is going destroy most casters but lose a lot of fights to other sneaks since there is an evade penalty of 50% on dual wielding enemies. This is the spec you will likely 1 shot many casters given a decent template and slow 2h weapon.

Dont want to use CS styles? go 44 or 50LA spec, the rest should be comp 50. This affords the lowest style and base dmg penalties on both hands when dual wielding.

Want a mix of it all? Know that your LA penalty will be higher so both hands will be doing less dmg. You get poisons though, and stuns in your kit which lets you go toe to toe with other sneaks and if you're lucky a light tank that doesn't have a shield slam waiting for you. Many people like this spec as of late it seems.

Final thought: Always, always, always consider going comp 50 into your weapon line. The reason I say this is because if you are at comp 50 your "miss rates" not to be confused with the enemy "block rates, evade rates, parry rates" will be at a base of only 10% like any other enemy in the game. Once you start dropping below comp 50 weapon spec you start seeing a noticeably higher miss rate with your main and offhand. If you're very low in your comp weapon spec you will see huge miss rates (almost like you're fighting purple mobs in pve) in RVR. Any time you are RR5+ you should be aiming for "comp 51" in main weapon spec such as sword or axe. This gives you the bonus of technically being "level 51" when it comes to rvr terms. I know its strange but there is a bonus of 0.3 dps (16.2 to 16.5), and a lower miss rate (the % rate change I am unsure about but its small) in rvr once you are rr5+ if you are comp 51 in weapon spec.

Sorry about the wall of text, but this is a lot to wrap your heads around overall. Any questions? ask me. I'm a board troll at times.

Sanik
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Postby Sanik » Dec 12, 2016 04:35

Bcopeland wrote:Sb since release on live. One is r12L2, the other is 10Lx.

EDIT: to clarify what I mean by "comp." This means composite, and you should be adding in your spec plus the +skill you have to equal the true number. So if I have 35 stealth and +15, I am "comp 50" in stealth.



First lets talk about a pure critblade with 0LA skill.

-50CS, comp 50 stealth, comp 50 sword or axe, and the rest poison. This is what is known as a critblade. With this spec you will never (or rarely just to apply the extra poison) be dual wielding. Your 2h dmg is only based off of the 50cs spec (since you will only be using the CS styles) and the growth rates are pure and maxed as long as you are 50 comp (weapon spec +skills) axe or sword and 50CS. This is because there is no dual wield penalty. If you intend on using a sword or axe style then the growth rates on said style would start to diminish since sword and axe both have far smaller growth rates, and you are also basing dmg off of spec which is only comp 50 instead of lets say 50+12 or whatever. If you were to just use sword or axe styles then it would be better to spec 50 in that weapon instead, but lets face it the growth rates on CS styles are the highest in the game so why would you do that. You do not want to be dual wielding in this spec and will take a MASSIVE penalty to main and offhand dmg if you are.

Next lets look at a pure SZ (shadowzerk) with very high if not maxed LA skill.

-50LA, Lower than comp 50 axe or sword, comp 50 stealth, comp 50 poison (this is where you get higher miss rates due to being sub 50 with your axe or sword spec and can be frustrating at low rr's).
-44LA, comp 50 weapon, comp 50 stealth, comp 50 poison (probably the safest of the specs to start, and most reliable with lower miss rates).

Here is where the penalty for LA comes into play. I don't know the exact numbers off hand, but it is not a pure 50% dmg penalty (I think it starts at around 50 or 33%% and goes down depending on LA skill/comp level) and I'll explain how it works. First your offhand and your mainhand are both penalized (base damage and style) by the comp level of your LA skill. To get the most out of both hands that will swing 100% of the time (unlike the NS and Inf line) you need to be 50LA specced and then add in bonuses. At low rr you could be 50+11 or 50+14 or whatever depending on your RR. How it works is that the higher your LA spec is the more base dmg both weapons will do. If you only use LA styles you will do more damage on that style dmg (and base of course) with higher LA skill level. So lets say you swing unstyled with 0LA. You will do XXX dmg with both hands and take a base penalty of 33% to 50% penalty on both hands (plz don't quote me on numbers) on each hands dmg. If you then up your LA skill you will take less of a penalty on each hand. The higher you go up in LA the less the penalty gets. This is why a very high rr sb (like 12L2 in my case) are an absolute terror and really do outperform their counterparts since the penalty diminishes and they still swing with both hands every round (this doesn't start to come into play until rr9+ trust me). Now when you swing styled its just like anything else melee related in the game. If you use LA styles you get more style dmg based on spec with the side effect of having less of a penalty on each hand the higher your LA skill is. I know its a bit confusing, but just wait it gets worse later.

Ok buckle in its about to get a bit more confusing here...

So here is another fairly popular spec at lower and mid RRs.

21CS, comp 50 weapon, 39LA, comp 50 poison, comp 50 stealth.

Now depending on how low of an RR you are this spec is still stretching your spec points and you may not be able to be 50 poison with this spec. This is where auto training really helps you (as with any low rr sneak).

The reason for this spec is to still have your PA that breaks bubbles and does very decent dmg. Some choose to PA with a 2h since it has a high growth rate and high dmg and they want to get the most off of that initial hit. This spec is great for destroying casters to be honest, but we can get into that with another post. How this spec is intended is that you get a great opener even at 21cs, you get the 2part off evade stun in LA, respectable LA style dmg and only a moderate penalty in style and base damage on both hands when dual wielding. Everything is debatable of course and to each their own on how well this performs. This is still a sub par spec against anything but casters since you don't have your 2part CS stun follow up (creeping death) to lock a target down for that 7s. If you are caster hunting you can use this spec quite well since if you PA a caster you rarely need the CD 7s stun follow up to finish them off. You also get the chance to fight back if another sneak attacks you since you have your 2part off evade stun in your kit. The good part also about this spec is that you get to use poisons near max if not max depending on what your RR and spec afford you. This spec you should ONLY be using the PA style in the cs line and a very rare garrote to snare someone. If you are using primarily CS styles in this line you're just gimping yourself for no reason and should just spec differently.

Another spec is to use the 34CS, 34 or 39LA, sub comp 50 weapon spec, comp 50 stealth, the rest poison (which likely is sub comp 50 since you're likely still low rr).

Pros about this spec is you get that 7s followup stun to your PA. If your 39LA you get that 2 part evade stun, respectable LA dmg with a moderate penalty, and dual wielding for 2 poisons. The drawbacks to this spec is again you're not maxed LA so you truly are taking a bigger penalty with any LA styles and base damage, and YOU ARE ALSO TAKING A PENALTY ON DUAL WIELDING WHEN YOU ARE USING YOUR CS STYLES. Yes read that very very carefully. You will still take a dual wield penalty even when using your CS styles if you are dual wielding. The CS growth rates are only based on your CS spec and weapon spec up to comp 50. If your CS spec is 34 you still do respectable growth rate dmg and if your weapon spec is comp 50 your dmg will see no penalty to that CS style. The problem however is that you will still see base dmg penalties on both mainhand and offhand dmg based on your LA spec. This is why its a bit confusing overall and the SB spec has given so many people problems over the years if they do not fully understand how base and style dmg works and how the CS line, weapon spec line, and the LA line work in conjunction. You truly need all 3 if your going to spec higher in the CS line and want to retain the ability to dual wield without a massive penalty to dmg because of a low LA skill. Confusing I know...

So something to think about when going to spec.

Using only a 2h? go Pure CS, comp 50 weapon, comp 50 stealth, comp 50 poison. Easy and nothing to think about. Your a 2 handed monster that is going destroy most casters but lose a lot of fights to other sneaks since there is an evade penalty of 50% on dual wielding enemies. This is the spec you will likely 1 shot many casters given a decent template and slow 2h weapon.

Dont want to use CS styles? go 44 or 50LA spec, the rest should be comp 50. This affords the lowest style and base dmg penalties on both hands when dual wielding.

Want a mix of it all? Know that your LA penalty will be higher so both hands will be doing less dmg. You get poisons though, and stuns in your kit which lets you go toe to toe with other sneaks and if you're lucky a light tank that doesn't have a shield slam waiting for you. Many people like this spec as of late it seems.

Final thought: Always, always, always consider going comp 50 into your weapon line. The reason I say this is because if you are at comp 50 your "miss rates" not to be confused with the enemy "block rates, evade rates, parry rates" will be at a base of only 10% like any other enemy in the game. Once you start dropping below comp 50 weapon spec you start seeing a noticeably higher miss rate with your main and offhand. If you're very low in your comp weapon spec you will see huge miss rates (almost like you're fighting purple mobs in pve) in RVR. Any time you are RR5+ you should be aiming for "comp 51" in main weapon spec such as sword or axe. This gives you the bonus of technically being "level 51" when it comes to rvr terms. I know its strange but there is a bonus of 0.3 dps (16.2 to 16.5), and a lower miss rate (the % rate change I am unsure about but its small) in rvr once you are rr5+ if you are comp 51 in weapon spec.

Sorry about the wall of text, but this is a lot to wrap your heads around overall. Any questions? ask me. I'm a board troll at times.


good info. can you tell me what weapon you would go for SZ spec. Do you want a 4.2 MH crafted axe with 4.2 dragonmight offhand?

or do you use a fast offhand to lower your weapon delay?

Bcopeland
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Postby Bcopeland » Dec 13, 2016 19:16

Since there is no melee speed bonuses you will want to do a 4.2 mainhand or 4.1 if you want with a faster offhand to maximize your swing speed. With 250 quick you are hard capped but still don't swing at the fastest rate if you use 4.2 main and offhand. I think someone did the calculations a long time ago and found that a 4.2 and 2.9 were nearest the cap pre TOA

thursa
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Postby thursa » Dec 15, 2016 13:50

Hey bcopeland.. what are your thoughts on the "Wyrd" Shadowblade spec?
(This would be for higher RR I think.. I doubt you could pull off this spec < RR7 )
Namely:

34 Axe/LA
44 CS
34 Stealth
30 Envenom

Depends on how much you value envenom, and such.

https://web.archive.org/web/20110429033404/http://vnboards.ign.com/Midgard_Rogue_Professions/b20912/78799461

It should be worth pointing out that Strength affects damage AND chance of being evaded/parried/blocked.
So a SB with Aug Strength 5 would probably do better .. and since CS styles grow faster that LA, it makes more sense to use CS styles over LA.

Should also point out Mastery of Pain bonus only gets added AFTER the Left Axe nerf, so it's better for Infis and NS than for SB... which sucks. Big imbalances with this game, plus who the heck knows with the Uthgard code.
Last edited by thursa on Dec 15, 2016 18:03, edited 1 time in total.

peter1986
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Postby peter1986 » Dec 15, 2016 16:54

Didn't i read that perf doesn't pop the bubble? just bypass it for that attack? So you'd never get Creeping Death off anyway.

Firstarget
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Postby Firstarget » Jan 22, 2017 04:06

Soulblade Spec ( more decent spec & hybrid ) in my opinion
rr1
35 stealth
35 env
34cs
39la
34 sword (polar rift anytime)

with RR just downgrade Stealth/env and up Sword/cs your choise but i pref sword for up Wepskill

you can PA+CD at 2h then switch LA and apply maximum poison try to get some sword in your inventory and switch Right hand manual in your bag for Refresh Dot/debuff

enjoy

th0msdk
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Postby th0msdk » Feb 02, 2017 13:18

Everyone and their mother is on crack in this thread rofl.

Especially Bcopeland, with his 50cs/50sword/50stealth comp, rest envenom being the "real" critblade.
He clearly have no freakin' clue wtf he is talking about...

A shame to see a guy write so much text, with so much misleading info...


Below in the quote, you'll find the best spec for v1.65, till you hit RR8-10 in a few years.
Take it or leave it. Or listen to that guy Bcopeland lol...

Who the **** would use 2H only on an SB?! :gaga:

th0msdk wrote:
Ilerget wrote:
th0msdk wrote:Nobody seem to understand we play 1.65, YOU DONT NEED LA on a critblade ffs.... Seriously i need to make a thread about this, before we get gimped trash sb's roaming RvR.....


SB Critblades were the dominating stealther in 1.65, of all 3 realms, for a reason...

Using 2H all the time?


No? Just for PA as usual, or just with 1h, if you prefer that. CS line don't get any bonuses/penalty from LA in 1.65.

RR2 38/38/39/44
At RR5, my spec will be 35/35/39/48, same as every other sane SB. At RR6, maximum you'll have in LA is 4 points :)


Those who made, Shadowzerker/Soulblade, are only gimping themselves, and most don't care, they just want to play a different style or doesn't know any better. But like i said 1000 times, it still doesn't change the facts, that the Critblade build is the ultimate best till you're like RR8-10.

Honestly, if it was a PvP server, i wouldn't give advice, but since it's RvR, i just want my fellow stealthers to succeed better, other than that, i don't give a sheet. Take it or leave it.

th0msdk
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Postby th0msdk » Feb 02, 2017 15:03

peter1986 wrote:Didn't i read that perf doesn't pop the bubble? just bypass it for that attack? So you'd never get Creeping Death off anyway.


Thats why you can PA with dual wield, if you so desire, cause offhand breaks bubble. But i don't remember if PA breaks bubble in 1.65 tbh.

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