Differences between Zerk and Savage?

Killa162
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Postby Killa162 » Jan 27, 2017 16:22

As title asks, whats the differences between the two? They both dual wield so other then that I'm not too sure what is different about them. Like what are pros and cons compared to each other. Trying to decide to go Mid or Alb and pick a main spec. I'm new obviously by this difference question lol.

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borog
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Postby borog » Jan 27, 2017 16:27

Technically speaking the savage doesnt dual wield because defpen calculations for it are based off main hand only. That means they perform worse against shield users, whereas berserkers dont have that problem.

Savage has buffs that use its own health as a power source, once the buff runs out. H2H savages get the chance to double, triple and quad hit based on their H2H skill spec. They can't D/T/Q when using two handed weapons.

Berserkers have no extra toys but have consistent good damage and arent bothered by shields.

Both classes get 360 degree evade...

Killa162
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Postby Killa162 » Jan 27, 2017 16:39

So savages are a better choice to pick? Like apart from 8v8, is there zerg fort/keep fights? I'm not a huge 8v8 person. Literally got level 2 on my Armsman and said wait, I wonder how the balance is and seen Mid is dominating (not trying to join the bandwagon, only joining because that's what I played on retail. So for pros and cons you listed, with the need in general RvR combat, not 8v8, whats needed more, and what is easier to play. What would anyone recommend

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Atreiu
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Postby Atreiu » Feb 01, 2017 03:05

Berserker is definitely easier to play. Mostly because of the savage self buffs, which I find a kinda Meh mechanic btw, even tho I usually like more "active" classes. It's a shame I like the savage H2H style very much.

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Kerw
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Postby Kerw » Feb 02, 2017 09:05

In general I would recommend playing Berserker, if you're feelings towards both classes are about equal. Play savage if you like the style and the "more interesting" task. Berserker is more effective, at least in RvR (Zerg or 8vX doesn't matter). In PvM in a solid group Savage is equal or in some situations better (Guard, resi and evade buff = unkillable by boss mobs).

I played Savage on uthgard 1 and live so here's my opinion on both classes in RvR. I'm not sure about the current Realm Ability setting so my infos might be somewhat outdated.

Berserker has 1 BIG and crucial advantage which cannot be stressed out too much: Dual Wield. It cuts down the blockrate by half, which is very important if your target (healer, caster) is guarded by the enemies shield-tank.
Savages, although wielding two weapons, do count as attacking with a single one-handed weapon and do not have this bonus against blocks. You will not hit any target with guard. Even Supporters with small shields get a decent blockrate if you hit them from the front. It can be absolutely frustrating. Yes you can dance around them but it doesn't solve the problem completely, especially not the guard problem.

Savage has many small advantages:
- better defense (resis and better evade)
- good stun-styles
- good evade styles (1v1)
- easy switch between thrust and slash damage (adapt according to target = better damage)
- lol hits (quad+crit+proc) every now and then

But all this doesn't make up for the lack of dual wield if you go for effectiveness. That being said, a single savage is a valid option for a group if he acts as a freelancer who doesn't follow the Assist Train, thus the targets won't get guard so often. Here the advantage of the stun styles is a bonus.

In Zerg fights the difference between the two doesn't matter too much - basically both suck ;). However, the constant decrease in health due to the savage buffs is a steady load, especially for the typical unbalanced Zerg groups.
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Simimi
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Postby Simimi » Feb 02, 2017 09:31

Savage is for people who would like to be zerk but dont like to play troll.

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majky666
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Postby majky666 » Feb 02, 2017 10:20

Simimi wrote:Savage is for people who would like to be zerk but dont like to play troll.

I am glad, you opened it.
imho troll sav>kobold sav>norse>valkyn
Troll savage can get (very close) to swing speed cap and to high evade with well choosed weapon speed, self buffs and fullbuff from seers. Why pick kobold? Kobby is probably more evasive when solo, but has much lower HPs. (disadvantage when using self buffs)
Just for record: H2H weapon dmg any kind of dmg, slash or thrust, is counted dex/2+str/2 and troll is slightly better in that. (70 str+35 dex vs 50 str+70 dex)
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Simimi
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Postby Simimi » Feb 02, 2017 10:32

Ok, troll is the best, but if you dont like to play troll ( like 16' screen ) you cant play midgard mélée at all ?
Savage is ok for that.

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majky666
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Postby majky666 » Feb 02, 2017 10:38

Simimi wrote:Ok, troll is the best, but if you dont like to play troll ( like 16' screen ) you cant play midgard mélée at all ?
Savage is ok for that.

I dont say that. If you want play norse zerker, ok play it. If you want kobold savage, ok it is your own thing.
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Minaor
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Postby Minaor » Feb 09, 2017 10:49

Kerw wrote:In general I would recommend playing Berserker, if you're feelings towards both classes are about equal. Play savage if you like the style and the "more interesting" task. Berserker is more effective, at least in RvR (Zerg or 8vX doesn't matter). In PvM in a solid group Savage is equal or in some situations better (Guard, resi and evade buff = unkillable by boss mobs).

I played Savage on uthgard 1 and live so here's my opinion on both classes in RvR. I'm not sure about the current Realm Ability setting so my infos might be somewhat outdated.

Berserker has 1 BIG and crucial advantage which cannot be stressed out too much: Dual Wield. It cuts down the blockrate by half, which is very important if your target (healer, caster) is guarded by the enemies shield-tank.
Savages, although wielding two weapons, do count as attacking with a single one-handed weapon and do not have this bonus against blocks. You will not hit any target with guard. Even Supporters with small shields get a decent blockrate if you hit them from the front. It can be absolutely frustrating. Yes you can dance around them but it doesn't solve the problem completely, especially not the guard problem.

Savage has many small advantages:
- better defense (resis and better evade)
- good stun-styles
- good evade styles (1v1)
- easy switch between thrust and slash damage (adapt according to target = better damage)
- lol hits (quad+crit+proc) every now and then

But all this doesn't make up for the lack of dual wield if you go for effectiveness. That being said, a single savage is a valid option for a group if he acts as a freelancer who doesn't follow the Assist Train, thus the targets won't get guard so often. Here the advantage of the stun styles is a bonus.

In Zerg fights the difference between the two doesn't matter too much - basically both suck ;). However, the constant decrease in health due to the savage buffs is a steady load, especially for the typical unbalanced Zerg groups.


Good analysis, I would add (for 8man rvr) :
- Savage doesnt have the Prevent Flight RA
- Savage benefits far less from celerity than berserker does (because they almost cap their attack speed without it)

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Postby randomeclipse » Mar 17, 2017 23:47

I am enjoying my Dwarf Zerker! :)
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Killa162
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Postby Killa162 » Mar 29, 2017 14:44

So for starting stats of a troll, what should they be?

jenskamen
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Postby jenskamen » Mar 31, 2017 10:40

15str/10quick

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majky666
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Postby majky666 » Mar 31, 2017 11:48

jenskamen wrote:15str/10quick

I rather would go 15str/10dex.
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jenskamen
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Postby jenskamen » Mar 31, 2017 16:34

majky666 wrote:
jenskamen wrote:15str/10quick

I rather would go 15str/10dex.


If not playing 8man i agree. otherwise 15str/10 quick sounds better to me

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