Rumonice wrote:
Specs I like the best are below:

Fast earth pets and max level stun pets with a decent low mana cost wind DD (28 spec 133D 17PP) and a 23 sec aoe mez with enough ice for the 30 sec aoe root.
40 earth
32 wind
16 ice

Why 40 into earth, the 32 pets already last 60 seconds - or do they have that much more hp/ faster movement? If yes, source please.
The points into ice seem wasted to me, well ok you can rupt with that root but you wont realy root anything with that i guess.

We are not cabby's. If you attempt to tri-spec you are going to be gimp af.

CowwoC wrote:

Rumonice wrote:
Specs I like the best are below:

Fast earth pets and max level stun pets with a decent low mana cost wind DD (28 spec 133D 17PP) and a 23 sec aoe mez with enough ice for the 30 sec aoe root.
40 earth
32 wind
16 ice

Why 40 into earth, the 32 pets already last 60 seconds - or do they have that much more hp/ faster movement? If yes, source please.
The points into ice seem wasted to me, well ok you can rupt with that root but you wont realy root anything with that i guess.

Playing 48 earth myself. Last pet is alot faster and hits alot harder.

Root is for rooting. Your rupt power comes from your pets not your dd or root.

Also in the contrary mez is total waste imo. Even last rank mez wont last more than 8-10 secs on a det ra + tempted Melee. But root still performs well when you need it in dire situations. Also combining Melee and ranged pet makes it harder to be cleared.

Pezzor wrote:We are not cabby's. If you attempt to tri-spec you are going to be gimp af.

Not quite, but you really have to be confident in your pet-handling ability because:

Anan wrote:Your rupt power comes from your pets not your dd or root.

Simply put, going Tri-spec means you are all about your pets and choosing the right pet for the right job at the right time. This is not a severely bad thing, but it is not a great thing for most players. From my ancient experience (as in, nothing recent here or Retail), a Theurgist is better off emphasizing one line, at least a little, and use another line to back it up.

From way back when, here is a write-up I commonly used on IGN VNBoards last around 2006:
Best Theurg specs:

45W/25I (Blizzard) - Best damage spec. Uber Wind Nuke combined with Ice elementals "4tehwin". 2 types of 30s CC. Lousy for PvE grouping due to no G/PBT. Great for soloing and RvR/PvP.

45W/28E (Sandstorm/Blowhard) - Great damage spec. Uber Wind Nuke with minimal PBT. Also have green Earth Elementals for Epic/ML raids. 30s Mezz is only aoe CC. Previously considered the only viable spec for Theurgists who like to do something other than bot.

41I/35E or 39I/37E (Glacier) - Decent damage spec. No base Ice Nuke variance, Great Ice pets and aoe root CC. Decent PBT and minimal blue Earth pets. A swiss-army/jack-of-all-trades spec. You won't be hurting in any area of DAoC, though you won't be super-uber.

45E/25I (Rocky) - Minimal damage spec. Ice nuke variance will exist, but is tolerable. Main tools here are the Earth and Ice pets combined with 6 sec PBT.

Now, this is not a definitive list, but these are optimized for MOST users. Any other spec is VERY specialized, and do not maximize the spell lines available to Theurgists.

Earth Elementals come at 1, 7, 12, 20, 32, 40, & 48. They all last 60 secs, have the strongest melee attack, and are blue con from 32 on. Each spell past 32 increases damage and greatly increases speed (Abbadon did a test chasing down a Minstrel and the 48 caught him at Speed 5, but not when he was at Speed 5 and Sprinting). They are defensively weak, though. If you have a naked pet that can run speed 5, carries a polearm, and has a Con Debuff placed on it, that would be an Earth Elemental.

Ice Elementals come at 1, 7, 13, 18, 25, 32, 40, & 48. They all last 25 secs, have a casting Spirit-based DD/snare, and are blue con from 25 on. Each spell past 25 slightly increases damage and reduces resist rate, not as noticeable an increase as with the Earth Elementals, in fact the highest has only a 5% increase over the 25 spell. These Elementals can actually take hits. Their nukes fire off terribly quick, but will stop when the Elemental receives damage (causing any nuking pet to go into melee).

Wind Elementals come at 1, 7, 12, 20, & 32. They all last 20 secs, have the weakest melee attack but can proc a 1 sec non-immunizing melee stun, and are blue con at 32. These Elementals are generally considered worthless unless all you need is to interrupt a target for a VERY short period of time, or you send them en mass, so their procs will stun lock your target. To be honest, the main reason you spec in Wind is for the DD, and the second reason you spec in Wind is for the mezz. These Elementals are more to round out the class than to be defining.

All Elementals share some things in common. They are a bastard breed. They share some of the characteristics of pets, and some of the characteristics of spells. Elemental melee damage is Slash-based. They are Fire-&-Forget, and will stay on their target until their time is up, Stunned, Confused (or Amnesia'd, I forget), or dead, even if you die first. Since they are pets, they use their Caster's level to determine their ability to interrupt spells, much like a Druid's grey pet. The 1st level pet is 15% of your base power pool, the rest are 12%. They cannot be rooted or mezzed. They can be affected by the Convoker ML9 Ability. MoC will affect their life-span like it affect's your nukes damage. Each Elemental acts like a pet in determining attackers on a target, making Earth Elementals a must for Raids. Theurgists do not get access to any Pet RAs, so none of them affect Elementals. +Spell Lines do not affect them in any way other then improve their Focus benefits.

Charistoph wrote:Earth Elementals come at 1, 7, 12, 20, 32, 40, & 48. They all last 60 secs

1, 7, 12, 20 lasts for 30 sec.

Charistoph wrote:

Pezzor wrote:We are not cabby's. If you attempt to tri-spec you are going to be gimp af.

Not quite, but you really have to be confident in your pet-handling ability because:

Anan wrote:Your rupt power comes from your pets not your dd or root.

Simply put, going Tri-spec means you are all about your pets and choosing the right pet for the right job at the right time. This is not a severely bad thing, but it is not a great thing for most players. From my ancient experience (as in, nothing recent here or Retail), a Theurgist is better off emphasizing one line, at least a little, and use another line to back it up.

From way back when, here is a write-up I commonly used on IGN VNBoards last around 2006:
Best Theurg specs:

45W/25I (Blizzard) - Best damage spec. Uber Wind Nuke combined with Ice elementals "4tehwin". 2 types of 30s CC. Lousy for PvE grouping due to no G/PBT. Great for soloing and RvR/PvP.

45W/28E (Sandstorm/Blowhard) - Great damage spec. Uber Wind Nuke with minimal PBT. Also have green Earth Elementals for Epic/ML raids. 30s Mezz is only aoe CC. Previously considered the only viable spec for Theurgists who like to do something other than bot.

41I/35E or 39I/37E (Glacier) - Decent damage spec. No base Ice Nuke variance, Great Ice pets and aoe root CC. Decent PBT and minimal blue Earth pets. A swiss-army/jack-of-all-trades spec. You won't be hurting in any area of DAoC, though you won't be super-uber.

45E/25I (Rocky) - Minimal damage spec. Ice nuke variance will exist, but is tolerable. Main tools here are the Earth and Ice pets combined with 6 sec PBT.

Now, this is not a definitive list, but these are optimized for MOST users. Any other spec is VERY specialized, and do not maximize the spell lines available to Theurgists.

Earth Elementals come at 1, 7, 12, 20, 32, 40, & 48. They all last 60 secs, have the strongest melee attack, and are blue con from 32 on. Each spell past 32 increases damage and greatly increases speed (Abbadon did a test chasing down a Minstrel and the 48 caught him at Speed 5, but not when he was at Speed 5 and Sprinting). They are defensively weak, though. If you have a naked pet that can run speed 5, carries a polearm, and has a Con Debuff placed on it, that would be an Earth Elemental.

Ice Elementals come at 1, 7, 13, 18, 25, 32, 40, & 48. They all last 25 secs, have a casting Spirit-based DD/snare, and are blue con from 25 on. Each spell past 25 slightly increases damage and reduces resist rate, not as noticeable an increase as with the Earth Elementals, in fact the highest has only a 5% increase over the 25 spell. These Elementals can actually take hits. Their nukes fire off terribly quick, but will stop when the Elemental receives damage (causing any nuking pet to go into melee).

Wind Elementals come at 1, 7, 12, 20, & 32. They all last 20 secs, have the weakest melee attack but can proc a 1 sec non-immunizing melee stun, and are blue con at 32. These Elementals are generally considered worthless unless all you need is to interrupt a target for a VERY short period of time, or you send them en mass, so their procs will stun lock your target. To be honest, the main reason you spec in Wind is for the DD, and the second reason you spec in Wind is for the mezz. These Elementals are more to round out the class than to be defining.

All Elementals share some things in common. They are a bastard breed. They share some of the characteristics of pets, and some of the characteristics of spells. Elemental melee damage is Slash-based. They are Fire-&-Forget, and will stay on their target until their time is up, Stunned, Confused (or Amnesia'd, I forget), or dead, even if you die first. Since they are pets, they use their Caster's level to determine their ability to interrupt spells, much like a Druid's grey pet. The 1st level pet is 15% of your base power pool, the rest are 12%. They cannot be rooted or mezzed. They can be affected by the Convoker ML9 Ability. MoC will affect their life-span like it affect's your nukes damage. Each Elemental acts like a pet in determining attackers on a target, making Earth Elementals a must for Raids. Theurgists do not get access to any Pet RAs, so none of them affect Elementals. +Spell Lines do not affect them in any way other then improve their Focus benefits.

so much wrong informations in just one post./slowclap

imamizer wrote:

Charistoph wrote:Earth Elementals come at 1, 7, 12, 20, 32, 40, & 48. They all last 60 secs

1, 7, 12, 20 lasts for 30 sec.

Not last time I was on a few days ago. The Earth Elementals at spec level 1 lasted significantly longer without a mob on them than the Ice Elementals of the same spec level (more than twice, actually) and listed the duration as 1 min, i.e. 60 seconds.

CowwoC wrote:so much wrong informations in just one post./slowclap

1) This information IS old, and I stated it as such. It was last updated around Catacombs time, so some of the information may be a little different than the Retail 1.65 (though not many changes happened between then) and the Uthgard standard.
2) Elucidate some of the more egregious points or be considered no more than a bully.

imamizer wrote:

Charistoph wrote:Earth Elementals come at 1, 7, 12, 20, 32, 40, & 48. They all last 60 secs

1, 7, 12, 20 lasts for 30 sec.

Nope.

I had a theurgist on live with a full ice spec and I plan to spec this way over here too - 50 Ice/20 Earth.
I love this spec.

Why?

Spec spell dd/snare is wonderfull especially against the melee groups or against the kiting targets. Every one tries to peel in RVR and this dd/snare gives you 179 delve and 30 sec/35% snare. It Is a lvl 50 spell.

You have a lvl 49 350 ae-root - 1min 13 sec! the duration of the longest single root.

You have latest ice elementals. Yes, the damage progression with level of elementas is poor, but even if the resistnace value grows by 5-10 % it is usefull to take it.
And they make a significant damage and snare again.
And they are huge - try to click on the theurgist behind the wall of this pets and at 2000 range!

And you still have your geen eath pets in order to cast them at keep gates or somtheing like that if you need it.
I ve tried to spec eath, even the 48 spec. The eath pets are really quick and last longer, but the need a time to reach the goal and are easey to destroy. So, the eath path was for me realy boring compared to ice.

Yes you have no PBT. I ve never missed it! PBT burns out to much of power the thergist still need very much.
Even the best PBT is nothing if anyone has the dw-at on. So, for what? Against a peeling warden or skald - learn to kite them!
And for pve you could provide group bubble or single one on the damage holder, wich is the most valuble and quickest pbt in game.

The only thing I miss from the earth school line is haste debuff, but I think a theuergist has enough to do also without this debuf.

I ve never had probs to find a group.

Probably a silly question, but before the shutdown on uthgard I had mine species ice until 40s, then respec into earth and wind and it worked great. Is there a better leveling spec now, or is ice still the way to level?

Magia wrote:Probably a silly question, but before the shutdown on uthgard I had mine species ice until 40s, then respec into earth and wind and it worked great. Is there a better leveling spec now, or is ice still the way to level?

I would say, it depends on your final spec wish.
I think, the ice-pets are really mighty for lvling and for rvr.
The eath spec with eath pets and bubble is important for keep raids and for pve raids.

Wind spec is just nuke, I mean, its not really job of a theurgist and in ice spec or ice/eath you will have a valuble and constant base nuke or even a spec nuke with snare. And ae-root. And Pets in the wind line are not as good as in other lines by far.

But if you want be nuker, why not, make respec into wind. Especially if you plan play in sg with assist debuff nuke. In all other cases your group - doesnt matter in RvR or in PvE - will await somthing other from Theurgist as nukes.

Hasbulat wrote:

Magia wrote:Probably a silly question, but before the shutdown on uthgard I had mine species ice until 40s, then respec into earth and wind and it worked great. Is there a better leveling spec now, or is ice still the way to level?

I would say, it depends on your final spec wish.
I think, the ice-pets are really mighty for lvling and for rvr.
The eath spec with eath pets and bubble is important for keep raids and for pve raids.

Wind spec is just nuke, I mean, its not really job of a theurgist and in ice spec or ice/eath you will have a valuble and constant base nuke or even a spec nuke with snare. And ae-root. And Pets in the wind line are not as good as in other lines by far.

But if you want be nuker, why not, make respec into wind. Especially if you plan play in sg with assist debuff nuke. In all other cases your group - doesnt matter in RvR or in PvE - will await somthing other from Theurgist as nukes.

I'm not at all saying you're wrong, I just remember than earth/wind thing working great on older uthgard. Maybe the air pet just doesn't land stun as much? I dunno

Right now I am killing with my Lvl 38 Theu/Skill 23 Ice/26 Eath (not skilled since 1 or 2 ups) yelow-ora con Danaoin Clerics in Lyonesse with Ice Pets.
For each Mob exactly 2 pets and in less then 10-15 sec mob is down. I still have 86 % power.
You mean, a nuke will be a better way?