Sorc Spec for RvR

lewisbt
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Postby lewisbt » Aug 19, 2016 16:18

Hello,

With i50 coming on tonite and the live release coming in a month or so (hopefully!) I'm looking at making a Sorc for RvR. The problem I'm having is with the spec; at first, I was thinking about maybe a 39 Mind / 37 Body spec, but I'm not sure if getting Mind up to 39 for the 10% Mez Dampening will be worth it.

I've played DAoC off and on since before SI was released, but I was mainly Hib. Could anyone with a bit more experience advise if 39 Mind / 37 Body is the way to go or would I be able to get in a RvR group with a 36 Mind / 40 Body spec?

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rorik
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Postby rorik » Aug 19, 2016 19:45

lewisbt wrote:Hello,

With i50 coming on tonite and the live release coming in a month or so (hopefully!) I'm looking at making a Sorc for RvR. The problem I'm having is with the spec; at first, I was thinking about maybe a 39 Mind / 37 Body spec, but I'm not sure if getting Mind up to 39 for the 10% Mez Dampening will be worth it.

I've played DAoC off and on since before SI was released, but I was mainly Hib. Could anyone with a bit more experience advise if 39 Mind / 37 Body is the way to go or would I be able to get in a RvR group with a 36 Mind / 40 Body spec?


With unlimited respecs, why not try both out? ;)

Hojo1
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Postby Hojo1 » Aug 31, 2016 16:45

Have you tested any of these and come up with a viable Spec?

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wla
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Postby wla » Jan 04, 2017 21:44

That's my experience from like 2006 - 2010. Im not sure what has been changed, regarding damager variances, resisting spells, charming pets, etc. in the past. Please correct me if I'm wrong:

At first: forget about matter magic. spending points into matter isnt worth a thing for RVR.

If you want to rvr (8-man / zergs), I'd suggest 44 mind / 31 body.
With higher RR, this is the specc you should aim for. With your equipment and your +skill from RR, you have to reach 50 in mind (charming yellow pets). With high RR, your +mind magiv from RR will be enough for that.
Your job in rvr ist: CC, CC, CC and CC, mixed up with some interrupts (when CC immunity hits in :-)).
With 44 mind, you'll have red mezz, means less resistance + longer duration ( + more mana costs, but what ever...).
More points in mind will only give u a better (self-)mezz shield and pom. The self-mezz shield is basically useless, because if your group is mezzed, you're usually the no1 target. so you wont be mezzed for long anyway. the group-mezz shield bonus is too small to aim for. the bonus from the better pom is as well to small to go for.
More points in body will only give u better inst-debuffs (= more mana costs), less variance in your nukes (you're going to use the baseline nuke anyway; the speccline nuke is crap if u dont max it) and a better aoe root.
About the aoe root: the duration generally is quite low, means you're going to give the enemy tanks a free root-immunity if you use the aoe root in high RR (use the red single target root from baseline instead).
About the damage: With high RR, you're damage variance will be quite low anyway.


If you're thinking about running solo / 2-man, then i'd suggest to go for 36 mind + 40 body.
With this, you have a yellow AOE mezz (which is ok for low RR rvr), and a low variance damage nuke. In low rvr, you can also use the aoe root, because tanks won't run around with full resis + det 5.
So basically that's a good mix of damage & CC. Your job with this specc: CC, Interrupt and do damage (e.g. join the assist-train when enemy is CC'ed). When you're running solo / 2-man, you have a pet by ur side for interrupting enemy, so you can concentrate on doing more damage.
However, if you want to charm high level mobs, you're totaly mind magic has to reach 50. Means your equipment becomes either more expensive, or you have to lose some resis / mana for the extra +mind magic on your equipment (be careful: you should not miss the +body magic in your equipment, because it will help you to reduce the dmg variance).
BUT I dont know if there are useful yellow mobs in the "new" rvr area, so be careful with that point. If there is only some crappy yellow melee stuff running around and waiting to becharmed, you can also get a blue melee interrupt-bot. If there are yellow caster mobs (or melee mobs with proccs) you should totally try to get one of those.

More opinions on that? Anything changed during the last years / in this relaunch that I did not consider?
Last edited by wla on Feb 21, 2017 09:53, edited 1 time in total.
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Eddie
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Postby Eddie » Jan 05, 2017 00:06

I tested the AoE mezzes on the lvl 50 Dummy, Blue, Yellow and Red, roughly 100ish of each.

Blue gets resisted 1 every 4, 25% resist ratio

Yellow once every 6 roughly (little less, 5.8 ) 16,5 - 17% resist ratio

Red mezz once every 8 casts, 12,5% resist ratio

This is basically what comes down to in the end, how much more resist you get on your mezz when increasing your body, in my opinion.

I had Df equip with +13 to mind on all 3 tests

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wla
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Postby wla » Jan 05, 2017 11:04

Thanks for testing.
So for high RR, the red mezz is still a must have. Difference of 5% resistrate in 8v8 is HUGE in my opinion.

Sidenote: Having more than 50 in mind magic does not grant any benefit at all in RvR

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Vidmar
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Postby Vidmar » Jan 05, 2017 12:33

Hey,

From my own experience from Daoc 1.65, the better choice should be : 46 Mind, 28 body

In a FG:
If you are mezz:
People won't demezz you, there is more targets focused like theurgist or cabalist.
So it's cool to be demezzed faster and you will be able to keep your purge for the NS that you will eat from eld/rm.
Red pom in this version is a plus, mana regen is low, only 1 charge per potion so the less you use, better it is.
The aoe root is just a ******, it will give imunity to root AND SNARE, so your peeler will just explod your face if you do it.

And i'm not agree with Wla too about your job, you will have to CC at inc ofc but when your cab will call a debuff on target you will have to drain assist him and do a lot of demezz against good team.

In a smallman it's same, if you are mezz, people will let you mezz, so the less mezz you are, better it is.

You will have more variance on your DD ofc, but it's ok at 1L you will have 28+11 = 39
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wla
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Postby wla » Jan 05, 2017 13:46

Is having a cab in your group going to be viable on uthgard? In former times, Cab was quite usless (unless you ran a caster group) because melees did way more damage. The NS was a nice bonus, but no must have.
With purge having a greater cooldown timer, caba could be more important in regular alb groups now yeah.

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imamizer
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Postby imamizer » Jan 05, 2017 14:00

I would always run with cabby unless it's full tank setup. You don't need a caster setup to make cabby useful imo. You always have a sorc in alb group and cabby+sorc(even low body spec) duo is good enough to debuff > assist. NS, disease, pet interrupt, debuff, pet cycle for long fights make them really useful in every setup.

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wla
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Postby wla » Jan 05, 2017 15:24

That was the theory in former times as well - however practically another merc was always more useful...

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Vidmar
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Postby Vidmar » Jan 05, 2017 15:35

Yeah but you know, daoc gameplay is always increasing. Now fighting with out NS (which can be only purge every 30min if you don't count the druide GP) or with out disease will work against pug but it will be hard against competitiv guilde group.
But yeah if you got the skill you can kill with every setup like neverboys did with a necro + friar in a group
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Postby Rezkin » Jan 17, 2017 19:18

Vidmar wrote:Hey,

From my own experience from Daoc 1.65, the better choice should be : 46 Mind, 28 body

In a FG:
If you are mezz:
People won't demezz you, there is more targets focused like theurgist or cabalist.
So it's cool to be demezzed faster and you will be able to keep your purge for the NS that you will eat from eld/rm.
Red pom in this version is a plus, mana regen is low, only 1 charge per potion so the less you use, better it is.
The aoe root is just a ******, it will give imunity to root AND SNARE, so your peeler will just explod your face if you do it.

And i'm not agree with Wla too about your job, you will have to CC at inc ofc but when your cab will call a debuff on target you will have to drain assist him and do a lot of demezz against good team.

In a smallman it's same, if you are mezz, people will let you mezz, so the less mezz you are, better it is.

You will have more variance on your DD ofc, but it's ok at 1L you will have 28+11 = 39



How is the damage with 28 vs 39 body? Is it that different that you wont do significant damage in RvR starting out? That's what I'm afraid of. We won't have a respec stones for a while so picking the right track by level 40 is key.

I was thinking 37/39 spec until higher RR and when respecs become readily available then switch to higher mind, but training this way for leveling to 50 might be a little tough :(

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Caldrian
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Postby Caldrian » Jan 19, 2017 10:52

Your damage with the base lifedrain wont be significant anyway (28 or 37), unless you assist with your friendly spirit cab, and then 28 body is fine. But that is ok, because with neither spec damage should be your priority, there are almost always better things to do with your mana. If you want to do a damage sorc go 45 body.

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Postby Dromina » Jan 22, 2017 16:35

Caldrian wrote:Your damage with the base lifedrain wont be significant anyway (28 or 37), unless you assist with your friendly spirit cab, and then 28 body is fine. But that is ok, because with neither spec damage should be your priority, there are almost always better things to do with your mana. If you want to do a damage sorc go 45 body.


for group spec 100% this

37/39 is a nice small men spec though cause you get aoe root and your damage is higher without debuff (small men / soloes dont always have resist buffs up so debuff is not that important and your role in small men fights is more damage oriented)

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Postby saitoh » Jan 24, 2017 18:45

wla wrote:That's my experience from like 2006 - 2010. Im not sure what has been changed, regarding damager variances, resisting spells, charming pets, etc. in the past. Please correct me if I'm wrong:

At first: forget about matter magic. spending points into matter isnt worth a thing for RVR.

If you want to rvr (8-man / zergs), I'd suggest 44 mind / 31 body.
With higher RR, this is the specc you should aim for. With your equipment and your +skill from RR, you have to reach 50 in mind (charming yellow pets). With high RR, your +mind magiv from RR will be enough for that.
Your job in rvr ist: CC, CC, CC and CC, mixed up with some interrupts (when CC immunity hits in :-)).
With 44 mind, you'll have red mezz, means less resistance + longer duration ( + more mana costs, but what ever...).
More points in mind will only give u a better (self-)mezz shield and pom. The self-mezz shield is basically useless, because if your group is mezzed, you're usually the no1 target. so you wont be mezzed for long anyway. the group-mezz shield bonus is too small to aim for. the bonus from the better pom is as well to small to go for.
More points in body will only give u better inst-debuffs (= more mana costs), less variance in your nukes (you're going to use the baseline nuke anyway; the speccline nuke is crap if u dont max it) and a better aoe root.
About the aoe root: the duration generally is quite low, means you're going to give the enemy tanks a free root-immunity if you use the aoe root in high RR (use the red single target root from baseline instead).
About the damage: With high RR, you're damage variance will be quite low anyway.


If you're thinking about running solo / 2-man, then i'd suggest to go for 37 mind + 39 body.
With this, you have a yellow AOE mezz (which is ok for low RR rvr), and a low variance damage nuke. In low rvr, you can also use the aoe root, because tanks won't run around with full resis + det 5.
So basically that's a good mix of damage & CC. Your job with this specc: CC, Interrupt and do damage (e.g. join the assist-train when enemy is CC'ed). When you're running solo / 2-man, you have a pet by ur side for interrupting enemy, so you can concentrate on doing more damage.
However, if you want to charm high level mobs, you're totaly mind magic has to reach 50. Means your equipment becomes either more expensive, or you have to lose some resis / mana for the extra +mind magic on your equipment (be careful: you should not miss the +body magic in your equipment, because it will help you to reduce the dmg variance).
BUT I dont know if there are useful yellow mobs in the "new" rvr area, so be careful with that point. If there is only some crappy yellow melee stuff running around and waiting to becharmed, you can also get a blue melee interrupt-bot. If there are yellow caster mobs (or melee mobs with proccs) you should totally try to get one of those.

More opinions on that? Anything changed during the last years / in this relaunch that I did not consider?



exactly what he said 44 mezz has also bigger radius 400 vs all other ones that are 350.
44-31 is the only way to go and the red ae str con debuff makes up for the nuke variance in my opinion..

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