I am not grasping some aspects of group play...

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Sonsi
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Postby Sonsi » Feb 17, 2017 17:00

Honesty time... I quit playing DAoC like... 15 years ago.


Why is the paladin always expected to pull? I understood it back then... I always pulled. However, with endo being the new paladin everything, and the range being so short... all i get now are people expecting me to pull, AND upset they miss so many endo ticks. How are you both pulling and satisfying their endo hunger at the same time?


I understand that if I put endo at the end of the twist, it is up full time. However, I can only maintain that for a couple of minutes. After that, my power is empty and the endo regen only fires the first pulse... the same as if it is in the middle of the twist. However, this causes groups to lose their... stuff. How are you maintaining endo full time?


My groups seem to have zero understanding that twisting costs more endo than endo chant provides, and are very unhappy at my lack of styling/threat... especially when the cleric is constantly full healing everyone. Heal Chant seems to be very nerfed from 2002 in the threat production. How are you holding threat?

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Pao
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Postby Pao » Feb 17, 2017 17:45

y pala shouldnt pull. Sorc is good puller or a friar.
Hope GMs are fine with what they have stated, that they are fine with just 80 people (300ppl was Trishin Statement long time ago) playing the game under their vision.
Its important to leave this server running doesn't matter how low the numbers will be. The other servers can fail but Uthgard still will be there, thats Uthgards only chance.

Dreventhe
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Postby Dreventhe » Feb 17, 2017 21:44

Hey Sonsi,

I can't answer your pulling question but I do have some information that may make your life a lot easier.


Endurance Chant does not take power when cast. It you look at the power cost it'll show 0 (+7 per tick) or something to that effect.
This means if you twist correctly you will rarely lose any power. Your power issues are based on leaving Endurance Chat on as your last piece in the twist and not continuing your twist the entire time. Healing chant is also a good + Aggro. You'll also want to change your twisting pattern depending on the situation.

My general twist is Heal -> Endurance -> Armor -> Endurance -> +Damage -> Endurance -> Heal (Wait for second tick here if needed) -> Endurance -> (go back to beginning of the chain)
(Depending on the situation you can hit heal and wait for the second heal tick then hit Endurance and swap back to Heal to start the chain again - This gives you an extra heal/aggro tick but is not always useful).

This method costs 0 power. You will have Endurance Chant up 100% of the time (a few seconds without if you wait for the second heal tick).


In regard to holding aggro I find being Crush spec and spamming your taunt style to be the most effective. Don't bother doing anything but taunting or over-zealous group members will pull aggro.

You mentioned Endurance issues - It will be even worse when you do the chanting I suggest above. To offset this you'll time your taunts to be one tick after you hit endurance chant anywhere in your twist. You'll get just enough endurance on the tick to do another taunt.

A fight might look something like:

Ranged taunt to pull -> Heal Chant (Extra aggro) -> Endurance Chant -> Crushing Style Taunt -> Armor Chant -> Endurance Chant -> Weapons Chant -> Endurance Chant -> Crushing Style Taunt -> Heal Chant (Potential pause for second tick) -> Endurance Chant -> Crushing Style Taunt -> Etc. Etc. - Just remember to give yourself that extra second for the endurance tick so you can taunt mid-twist when you're otherwise out of endo.

Don't forget to put your shield abilities on folk. Having Protect on the largest aggro-puller will make your life MUCH easier. Don't forget that Engage exists, it can be extremely useful in rare situations.

Hopefully some of the above will prove useful for you. FOR ALBION!

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Sonsi
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Postby Sonsi » Feb 17, 2017 22:52

Dreventhe wrote:My general twist is Heal -> Endurance -> Armor -> Endurance -> +Damage -> Endurance -> Heal (Wait for second tick here if needed) -> Endurance -> (go back to beginning of the chain)



Ok... how is that different from AF/DA/ENDO/Heal/ === >Refresh? Unless it is taking me a very long time press the buttons, they are still getting the 5 seconds of chant out of every 8 seconds of time?

Dreventhe
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Postby Dreventhe » Feb 17, 2017 23:14

The main difference is power usage. Endurance Chant is 0 power cost when cast but costs a bunch for each additional pulse when left on.

By doing AF/DA/ENDO/Heal you're not giving people endo the whole time. I'm not certain of the exacting times for each chants pulse but Endo seems to have a shorter pulse than the others (which also means more power lost faster when left on).

By doing AF/DA/Heal/ENDO you'll be using a lot of extra power as you'll have a few extra pulses that cost 7+ power each instead of 0 each inbetween the end/start of each twist.

By doing AF/Endo/DA/Endo/Heal/Endo/Repeat you'll negate the power loss (as endo never gets to do a second tick) and increase the coverage of each buff. If you time it correctly you will be non-stop twisting the entire fight with a half second to second and a half between chant casts depending on a variety of factors. The order of twisting can also be optimized for different situations and group compositions.

All of that being said there may very well be better routes to go. I've found the above to be optimal from my experience with my paladin alt who's currently 31.

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Sonsi
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Postby Sonsi » Feb 17, 2017 23:25

Endo is a 5 second pulse, zero recast
the others are 6 second pulse, 8 second recast.


So If I understand it, instead of pressing the chants quickly, and having a ~7second lull, you are spreading your button presses out about 1 and a half seconds apart, so you have no lull.

Dreventhe
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Postby Dreventhe » Feb 17, 2017 23:51

Exactly. It's a bit more effort to accomplish but allows you to never stop as you'll never run out of power and the rest of the group will always have Endurance.

This causes you to have no endurance after a long enough fight/chain pulling so you'll need to time the styles to right after a endo pulse as your style is the only thing you'll actually use the endo for. I'm hoping as the endo chant improves with levels that you'll be able to do the twist as I've mentioned AND have consistent endurance for more style spam; not sure if that happens at higher levels or not.

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Snowalker
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Postby Snowalker » Feb 20, 2017 07:30

Cheers Dreventhe for that twist order .

It took me 1 day to teach my fingers to do it ... but it works really nice.
What i did was to start with Af/Endo/taunt-DmgAdd/endo/taunt .

And now im able to do Af/endo/taunt-DmgAdd/endo/taunt-Heal/endo/taunt


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