Autotrain...

Madae
Gryphon Knight
 
Posts: 221
Joined: Jul 30, 2016 10:09

Postby Madae » Jun 09, 2018 08:47

Was autotrain removed? What is the deal here?
Last edited by Madae on Jun 09, 2018 08:54, edited 1 time in total.

Spivo
Eagle Knight
 
Posts: 952
Joined: Aug 15, 2011 14:29
Location: Denmark

Postby Spivo » Jun 09, 2018 08:54

Respect and you will see you have 12 in slash, that is how AT works.

You dont get extra points, you just have to spend less in the skill you AT.
I might complain and I don't play anymore, but I never forget the impact Uthgard had on me reminiscing DaoC and how much work the staff put in to it.
It remains a masterpiece, but stuck in time.

Madae
Gryphon Knight
 
Posts: 221
Joined: Jul 30, 2016 10:09

Postby Madae » Jun 09, 2018 08:56

Spivo wrote:Respect and you will see you have 12 in slash, that is how AT works.

You dont get extra points, you just have to spend less in the skill you AT.


Ok, I edited this, because now I'm confused.

I was told that if you leveled slash, you lost extra points for autotrain and you would never get those points back, which is why people go crush to 48 instead and then respec. But now I'm looking at this thing and I can train thrust and slash with 31 points in parry, or if I do crush I can take it to 29.

Where exactly do these "extra points" I heard about come from? Am I missing something? Was this issue fixed here? I mean, I understand that, yes, I am getting extra points for slash and thrust now, but I was under the impression that training slash to begin with early on made me lose something overall, which ****** me off back in the day, but I heard I could get around it by just switching to thrust at 48... but now it doesn't even look like whatever it is I was told or confused about is even a thing?

Maybe I'm not making any sense, and this is why I hate autotrain. If it didn't matter to begin with, why do people spec crush thinking it does something for them in the long run?

Spivo
Eagle Knight
 
Posts: 952
Joined: Aug 15, 2011 14:29
Location: Denmark

Postby Spivo » Jun 09, 2018 09:18

Madae wrote:
Spivo wrote:Respect and you will see you have 12 in slash, that is how AT works.

You dont get extra points, you just have to spend less in the skill you AT.


Ok, I edited this, because now I'm confused.

I was told that if you leveled slash, you lost extra points for autotrain and you would never get those points back, which is why people go crush to 48 instead and then respec. But now I'm looking at this thing and I can train thrust and slash with 31 points in parry, or if I do crush I can take it to 29.

Where exactly do these "extra points" I heard about come from? Am I missing something? Was this issue fixed here? I mean, I understand that, yes, I am getting extra points for slash and thrust now, but I was under the impression that training slash to begin with early on made me lose something overall, which ****** me off back in the day, but I heard I could get around it by just switching to thrust at 48... but now it doesn't even look like whatever it is I was told or confused about is even a thing?

Maybe I'm not making any sense, and this is why I hate autotrain. If it didn't matter to begin with, why do people spec crush thinking it does something for them in the long run?


God created DaoC, the devil added AT to the final product.

When you AT a skill, you get free points in that skill.
These points can NEVER be removed again, so at 48 you will always have 12 in slash.
If you start speccing slash, you have 77 "free" points, because you already have 12 in slash when you start speccing.
I might complain and I don't play anymore, but I never forget the impact Uthgard had on me reminiscing DaoC and how much work the staff put in to it.
It remains a masterpiece, but stuck in time.

Madae
Gryphon Knight
 
Posts: 221
Joined: Jul 30, 2016 10:09

Postby Madae » Jun 09, 2018 09:31

Spivo wrote:God created DaoC, the devil added AT to the final product.

When you AT a skill, you get free points in that skill.
These points can NEVER be removed again, so at 48 you will always have 12 in slash.
If you start speccing slash, you have 77 "free" points, because you already have 12 in slash when you start speccing.


This is seriously hurting my brain. I have the most difficult time grasping this concept... Maybe I'm just stupid.

I have 2607 available points to spend at 48. This is the same for every Merc at 48, correct?

Spivo
Eagle Knight
 
Posts: 952
Joined: Aug 15, 2011 14:29
Location: Denmark

Postby Spivo » Jun 09, 2018 09:33

Madae wrote:
This is seriously hurting my brain. I have the most difficult time grasping this concept... Maybe I'm just stupid.

I have 2607 available points to spend at 48. This is the same for every Merc at 48, correct?


Yes, but mercs who AT slash wont use as many points when they train slash, as mercs who did not AT it.
I might complain and I don't play anymore, but I never forget the impact Uthgard had on me reminiscing DaoC and how much work the staff put in to it.
It remains a masterpiece, but stuck in time.

Madae
Gryphon Knight
 
Posts: 221
Joined: Jul 30, 2016 10:09

Postby Madae » Jun 09, 2018 09:45

Spivo wrote:
Madae wrote:
This is seriously hurting my brain. I have the most difficult time grasping this concept... Maybe I'm just stupid.

I have 2607 available points to spend at 48. This is the same for every Merc at 48, correct?


Yes, but mercs who AT slash wont use as many points when they train slash, as mercs who did not AT it.


Ugh...

This http://genuapp.appspot.com/char/ is saying I should have 2684 skill points at 48, and yet I only have 2607... which is 77 missing points. Is this telling me that I "lost" 77 points for not AT'ing slash? But I "gained" 77 points for AT'ing Thrust? And that the actual base amount of skill points for someone who didn't AT both thrust and slash is 2530?

threer
Myrmidon
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Mar 25, 2017 13:11

Postby threer » Jun 09, 2018 11:15

You do NOT get 77 extra skill points, you get 12 free spec levels when fully autotraining in Slash!
This is basically the same when you spec in Slash, but there is no benefit when your plan is to go with Crush.

If you play around with a charbuilder like http://play.nixian.eu/index.php?page=charbuilder, set Thrust and Slash to 12 each and add 154 Bonus Points for compensation. Do not go below 12 in Thrust and Slash when playing around with your final spec, because you cannot go below 12 in-game on those two lines.

Update: On your example - If you only autotrained in Thrust, but not in Slash, then add 77 Bonus Points and set Thrust to 12. Now it is accurate. In this case, you only benefit at all from AT when your end spec contains Thrust. Those 77 points are just compensation in the charbuilder as there is no other way to map autotrain spec levels there. Those points are stuck to Thrust.


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